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Flybarless Helicopter Systems CSM Cyclock, Helitronix Multi-mixer, Spartan AP2000i, Firmtronix Digimix-3, Gyrobot, SK360and AC3X |
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11-12-2008, 12:53 PM | #21 (permalink) |
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The grips are 'deeper' so they finish further towards the centre than the align grips. The grip ball link hole also is central to the shaft overcoming those issues with the trex head. Outrage simply supply standoff balls that point straight out from the hub rather then pointing out of the back of the grips.
I haven't measured the spacers (I dont have spares of both). They look similar. I can do a photo of the two heads if it helps? The day somebody releases a tidy conversion kit for the trex head, they will be rich
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11-13-2008, 04:43 AM | #22 (permalink) |
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Hey just found this head check it out:
http://www.cnchelicopter.com/servlet...etc-450/Detail anyone heard of this? This site seems pretty cool. (this is not the outrage head) I bet Align is already working on flybarless kits. It's starting to be all the rage now that the stability systems are gaining credit. Check this out: http://www.rcheliresource.com/align-...onversion-kit/ http://www.rcheliresource.com/3dx-fl...lign-trex-700/ Last edited by xcraftllc; 11-14-2008 at 03:00 PM.. Reason: it's not the outrage head |
11-13-2008, 04:52 AM | #23 (permalink) |
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BTW I know it looks like the outrage head but its not
Also, check this out: http://www.lightningheli.com/rotor.html [IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Dixon/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Dixon/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.jpg[/IMG] |
11-17-2008, 12:34 AM | #24 (permalink) |
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Just wanted to throw this in here. I have been flying the Gaui head and yes, there is no spindle or dampening. It's a completely rigid rotor head where each grip is each secured with a steel M3 bolt. So far this head has been an INSANE performer in combination with the SK360. The geometry is just about perfect and I've since ironed out pretty much all of the strange(yet subtle) tendencies I was having with my converted rotor head. After thinking about it, this setup actually seems to be more stout than a typical 450 size teetering type of arrangement with a feathering shaft. Instead of the diminutive 2mm bolts taking the load of the blades spinning at 3400+ RPMs, the Guai setup has 3mm bolts. Not to mention you'll never have to replace dampeners ever again. Bobby Smith and myself have been testing both the Gaui and the Outrage heads with the Skookum setup and we agreed, the Gaui's head geometry/swash pitch ratios seems to be better suited for the system. That said, I HIGHLY recommend the Gaui head if you're going to do an SK360 setup with a 450. I'll be posting a video of my setup soon.
Last edited by Al Austria; 11-17-2008 at 02:22 AM.. |
11-17-2008, 10:54 AM | #25 (permalink) |
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AI,
I had once asked Skookum if a rigid head can be excellent, answer was not sure and pilots comment that any vibration will be magnified ... I have a different idea that magnification is not necessary as SK 360 comes with a dampening rate ... Reason to ask is because I am making low cost flybarless head for 450, then 500 and 600 ... market price for the 450 is estimated to be around 45 USD or even lower because stock grips are kept; and that should be the most simple head set up seen not even follower is needed; main baldes lowered in profile to give faster cyclic response without high torque demanded from the servos. This can be a good set up for hard core 3D pro. The bolt thing is not the best IMO because in any crash, the center hub may be damaged. I am having a prototype soon that has rigid head as no o-ring and keep the feathering shaft so in a hard landing, head down type, damage to the hub can be minimised ... Any comment? As you have tested the Guai head ... I may send you a set for test if you do not mind ... to give us a report
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11-20-2008, 04:13 AM | #26 (permalink) |
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Do you have any pictures of your head? I'm really interested in seeing how you are driving the swash, as well as accomplishing the proper swash to pitch ratios. For the 450 size at least, a rigid head setup works excellent with flybarless. My 450 is flying awesome with the Gaui head, absolutely crisp pitch stops and razor sharp cyclic response.
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11-21-2008, 06:46 PM | #27 (permalink) |
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my beam flybarless
Beam e4
GAUI FL head Gaui GU365 FL control system... |
11-22-2008, 08:33 PM | #28 (permalink) |
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two questions:
1. why do both the outrage head and gaui heads have only one scissor (swash plate driver). 2. what head is this: http://www.cnchelicopter.com/servlet...etc-450/Detail its not the outrage head, look. |
11-22-2008, 09:09 PM | #29 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
2. That head is either produced by the same OEM(rebranded), or an extremely good clone. Check out the latest vid of my setup with the Gaui head: http://www.rremodels.com/media/alan450.wmv |
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11-22-2008, 09:29 PM | #30 (permalink) |
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I see. well, I work on helicopters in the Army and thought that the vibrations from only having one scissor would cause damage to the bearings (unless it's balanced out). A guy on the outrage team said that the vibrations are extremely minimal and have basically no effect. Nice set up, I was wondering about the way a heli would handle in high speed forward flight with a rigid head like that. I.E. it has to flapping hing so how does it handle dyssymetry of lift?
Well overall I'm happy with the success of this thread. Here's something to add to it, has anyone head of or tried these guys: http://www.lightningheli.com/rotor.html they look kinda cheap though. |
11-22-2008, 10:02 PM | #31 (permalink) |
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The heli is quite solid in ALL modes of flight(including FFF/FBF flight), much more so than any flybarred 450 machine I've ever flown. I was also concerned about vibrations stemming from the swash driver but like the guy from Outrage said, any present vibration is extremely minimal and cannot be detected while flying, even at 3300+ RPM. If you're still concerned about it, Gaui makes a nice two armed swash driver which you can see here: http://www.rremodels.com/450swashdriver5mm.aspx
I must say, it's been almost two weeks and I'm surprised you still haven't decided on which head setup to go with. |
11-22-2008, 11:14 PM | #32 (permalink) |
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haha I know it's been a while. I would have bought the outrage head earlier but I got a "Backup Error" message on my DX7 and so now I'll have to turn it in to Horizon to get it reprogrammed. I might just get a new one cuz I could use some extra JR servos and a receiver anyway, besides I dropped my dx7 a couple times and it's been acting up before the error message. I think I'll take your advice with the gaui head, specially since they have a combo deal with the 365. I'm just gonna get the double scissor, that uni-scissor thing makes me nervous. The complete conversion will cost 300 bucks. Not realy that bad considering. I guess the dyssymetry of lift is worked out through regular cyclic input huh?
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11-22-2008, 11:26 PM | #33 (permalink) |
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The align V2 grips will work with outrage flybarless head kit. I bought the cnc helicopter copy of head and one grip was not drilled for blade bolt. I added shim and switched out balls and used V2 grips. The cnchelicopter head is not an exact copy of outrage because the grips are like the align grips.
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11-27-2008, 12:27 AM | #34 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
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12-04-2008, 12:11 AM | #35 (permalink) |
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i also flew wy mini titan with the sk360 turned off and it was scarry.i noticed the wind alot as my heli was all over the place.being the dummy i am i still flipped it and that was insane.barley got it back down in one peice.the funny thing is when i hovered my titan with no sk but had the gaui fbl head on the phasing was off 90 degrees but as soon as i hooked the sk up it was right on with no adjustment.same thing with my blade 400.
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12-04-2008, 08:21 AM | #36 (permalink) |
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That might be related to gyroscopic precession. Yeah I can't wait to get a set up going. I'm spending my spare cash on gifts for others. I should get some spending cash after Christmas. My plan is SK360 with outrage.
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12-19-2008, 10:18 PM | #37 (permalink) |
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Crunch Time
Well I'm planning on ordering everything I need to convert by jan 2nd when I get paid. I just reviewed this thread and there have been a lot of good arguments for everything. The candidate systems are:
1. Gaui FL head and GU-365 combo about $270 Nice, everything I need under 300. Despite the lack of thrust bearings and feathering shaft, this head has performed well (arguably better than outrage) for many people. 2. Outrage head and SK360 about $400 Is it worth the money? Please let me know your opinions and info on best places to buy. |
12-19-2008, 11:04 PM | #38 (permalink) |
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Though I haven't played with or even flown the GU-365 system, I've heard it is very easy to setup and flies well(this was with an Outrage head). I think you'll be happy with any combination of those components. You can get everything you need from www.rremodels.com.
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12-27-2008, 10:23 PM | #39 (permalink) |
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Combo
I can't believe I never noticed this but RREmodels has a combo pack for the Outrage G5 FL head + SK360 for $370, that saves 20 bucks. I know Al Austria goes through these guys, has anyone bought this combo?
BTW I've been emailing support at Skookum to see what exact settings are best for a converted T450 with this head and he says he's actually working on a file for such a conversion, thad be friggin sweet. |
12-27-2008, 11:02 PM | #40 (permalink) |
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Bobby Smith and I have already done such a conversion and our file is available for anyone that is interested on the RReModels site. We have files for both the Outrage head/SK360 as well as the Guai head/SK360 setups and both are pretty much as good as it gets.
Here are the files: Outrage head: http://www.rremodels.com/flybarless/rre450.zip Gaui head: http://www.rremodels.com/flybarless/austria_sk360.zip Last edited by Al Austria; 12-28-2008 at 12:40 PM.. |
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