New Vibration Issue...

[whatevva]

I've never had any problems with vibration on this 450, but now I'm getting a spike. Could a vibration Guru please point me toward the correct area to check? Thank You

[Inkslinginmofo77]

seems to be an up down vibe from your tail. check your tail for loose blade grips and bad bearings. and the shaft. torque tube or belt drive?

[whatevva]

It's torque tube...I'll go through the whole section...thanx!

[georgi UK]

=] Yes, it's a tail vibe, looks like the output shaft has movement or it's bent?

[whatevva]

Thank you, Georgi. I had a forced landing, a while back, that hit the tail blades and stripped out the the front gear drive..I'll Just replace the tail assembly

Thanx again everyone

[whatevva]

Well, new balanced blades helped a bit, but still showing a significant spike so I've ordered a new umbrella gear.

[Xrayted]

I would change out the tail shaft. Check the tail bearings for any notchy feeling while doing so. My experience with Align bearings is they get banged up in just about ground contact at all.

[whatevva]

Originally Posted by Xrayted

I would change out the tail shaft. Check the tail bearings for any notchy feeling while doing so. My experience with Align bearings is they get banged up in just about ground contact at all.

I'm pretty sure the tail shaft is what they're calling the umbrella gear, no? The bearings seamed ok. I was gonna replace them, but they're running free

[Inkslinginmofo77]

Yes the tail shaft has an umbrella gear on one end. The other end has the tail blade pitch assembly on it. U should be able to remove the blade rotor assembly from it and remove main blades and spool it up and watch it to see if it's got wobble

[Luvmyhelis]

The umbrella gear usually referenced is the one at the end of the TT that engages the tail shaft. Although the tail shaft has one also, it is still considered part of the tail shaft in description. Just pull the TT and take a close look at it. As you have to pull the tail shaft anyways.Usually it is the tail shaft or bearings as Xrayted suggested. But a solid consistent or matched up down lateral with higher fore aft peaks suggests the tail shaft for sure. A TT umbrella shows entirely different vibes but still needs a close look. Take a look at your tail grip hub? The lateral vibes suggest bad tracking and I would bet the hub is bent.

I do this systematically. Pull the tail blades, Log, pull the tail hub with grips, log. We eliminate each section until the vibes are gone if their interpretation is confusing or vague. When the grips and hub are gone if we still see the vibes, the culprit is usually the tail shaft itself. It usually takes out the inner tail bearing when it goes also. Then pull the tail shaft itself. Check the bearings and TT ends.

[whatevva]

Originally Posted by Luvmyhelis

The umbrella gear usually referenced is the one at the end of the TT that engages the tail shaft. Although the tail shaft has one also, it is still considered part of the tail shaft in description. Just pull the TT and take a close look at it. As you have to pull the tail shaft anyways.Usually it is the tail shaft or bearings as Xrayted suggested. But a solid consistent or matched up down lateral with higher fore aft peaks suggests the tail shaft for sure. A TT umbrella shows entirely different vibes but still needs a close look. Take a look at your tail grip hub? The lateral vibes suggest bad tracking and I would bet the hub is bent.

I do this systematically. Pull the tail blades, Log, pull the tail hub with grips, log. We eliminate each section until the vibes are gone if their interpretation is confusing or vague. When the grips and hub are gone if we still see the vibes, the culprit is usually the tail shaft itself. It usually takes out the inner tail bearing when it goes also. Then pull the tail shaft itself. Check the bearings and TT ends.

I should have just gone with my gut feeling and replaced the whole tail for $25! I have that shaft on the way, and I'm sure I'll be kicking myself for not getting the bearings as well..

[Inkslinginmofo77]

Honestly it worth it to upgrade your bearings to ceramic. I spent $300 on a combo pack on my trex 700 for full inner and outter ceramic bearings. A smaller heli would be cheaper. They will outlive your heli, they require no lube, they are nearly heat proof and have zero play.

[Xrayted]

Originally Posted by Inkslinginmofo77

Honestly it worth it to upgrade your bearings to ceramic. I spent $300 on a combo pack on my trex 700 for full inner and outter ceramic bearings. A smaller heli would be cheaper. They will outlive your heli, they require no lube, they are nearly heat proof and have zero play.

But the problem is they will be damaged in a crash just like any other bearing, so they end up being a complete waste of money. Yes, they may be higher quality, but they are way overkill for our purposes and are rated for RPMs and abuse far higher than our helis will ever produce. It's like installing $8,000 ceramic Porsche brakes on a 79 Pinto. Sure, they are much better brakes than stock, but for what purpose?

I could see using good sealed bearings in places where lubrication or maintenance is difficult if not impossible, or on a heli that is likely never to be crashed, but otherwise $300 doesn't buy you anything but a "feel good" moment because we think things must be better because we spent more money on it. Classic placebo effect. The reality is you could have two different helis, one with $300 ceramics, and the other bone stock, and you wouldn't be able to tell which was which in an actual blind test. Hell, mine are practically vibe free using the crap bearings that come with the kits!

[Inkslinginmofo77]

Yes true but it's the reliability. And ceramic bearings have a higher impact rating as well. Depending on which ones u get. Granted the stock bearings work just fine but u get what u pay for. I run all stock in my 600 and ever so often I have to replace them but I'd rather something fail on the ground rather than the air. It's a matter of preference. There's pros and cons to everything!

[Xrayted]

Originally Posted by Inkslinginmofo77

Yes true but it's the reliability. And ceramic bearings have a higher impact rating as well. Depending on which ones u get. Granted the stock bearings work just fine but u get what u pay for. I run all stock in my 600 and ever so often I have to replace them but I'd rather something fail on the ground rather than the air. It's a matter of preference. There's pros and cons to everything!

Yes, I will concede that more expensive bearings will most likely be more reliable, but the "get what you pay for" is a myth unless you are paying for something that is actually useful for your application.

Going back to my $8,000 brakes on a Pinto analogy........did I get what I paid for? Yeah, because I paid $8,000 for brakes that are the bomb on a car that can use them on a track, but they are more than worthless on a Pinto, so no, I just wasted 8 grand.

Better bearing may be more reliable, but better can be a $50 set of Boca steel bearings that are appropriate and will actually be useful on our models. How many stock bearings would you need to pay to replace before you will recover the $300 you spent on the ceramics you don't need? And this is assuming those expensive ones NEVER have to be replaced in any crash you have, and last the lifetime of the heli which will never happen!

You could crash the heli over an over for a very long time before you spent enough on stock bearings to hit that amount, and once again the heli doesn't fly any better at all because they are there, any more than the 79 Pinto becomes a race car because it has expensive race brakes on it.

Its all relative though my friend, and whatever gives you enjoyment is what is important in the end. I spent about $300 upgrading a CX2 coaxial with every bling part available years ago, before it hit me that the heli actually flew worse from all the extra weight, and it was still a crappy coaxial!. The heli became heavier and my wallet became lighter, but I learned a valuable lesson

[Inkslinginmofo77]

Okay you win.

[georgi UK]

=]

[Inkslinginmofo77]

Lol. I surrender

[georgi UK]

=]

Originally Posted by Inkslinginmofo77

Lol. I surrender

[whatevva]

boys....BOYS!!! peace