Orientation trouble - nose in

[cmenning]

I've been hesitant to try nose-in, but found this thread yesterday. It was too pretty to sit inside on the sim so I was out in the backyard. This was excellent advice! By the third battery, I was starting to get the hang of it (now I'm having issues with tail-in... yikes!).

Moving the stick in the direction the heli's going worked wonders for my brain. Had to relearn small stick movements though; back to the drawing board on that one. WAY overcorrecting again.

[Liduno]

Originally Posted by cmenning

I've been hesitant to try nose-in, but found this thread yesterday. It was too pretty to sit inside on the sim so I was out in the backyard. This was excellent advice! By the third battery, I was starting to get the hang of it (now I'm having issues with tail-in... yikes!).

Moving the stick in the direction the heli's going worked wonders for my brain. Had to relearn small stick movements though; back to the drawing board on that one. WAY overcorrecting again.

That's what made it click for me too, I think the over correction is just nerves.

Once you're in the nose in position, or any other position long enough, you get confident that you will be able to control every thing, then you calm down and smooth out.

[gpstech2012]

it took me like 2 years to comfortably do nose in and i still favor the tail orintation to this day

[Valleyboy]

The biggest problem I've had with nose in is the rudder control...

Looming forward to slowing down Phoenix tonight. I didn't even know you could do that!

[circuit]

Another thank you. Last night in Phoenix it clicked. I went from tail in to forward flight then to nose in all under control and hovered there for a few minutes amazing myself at how easy it really is once you stop thinking so much about it. :-)

I have been sneaking up on side in by moving the heli in a semi-circle in front of myself while holding a constant heading.

[Mrbprice1]

Thanks for all the great advise guys. Can't wait to try it out.

To jamenezes, yes it's possible to slow do Real Fight. Just go to: Simulation, Physics, Custom Tab, Then adjust the Physics Speed slider to the speed you want.

[Heli Wheels]

My most valuable tool for learning orientation is the sim but I don't use a heli, I use a plane. The big red beast is easy to see for me and it's nicer to train for orientation with something I can see rather than complicating thins by adding another factor to this equation by having to take time to think about which way the bird is pointed. The plane flight doesn't have to be pretty, I'm only there for the beer, sorry, I meant orientation.

Flying the plane is easier for me even though I have never flown an rc plane. If a plane was harder to fly than a heli, there would be a lot more heli pilots around now wouldn't there?

[Hooman]

I have been flying over a year and I am still learning to nose in, I fly sim nose in very well, it's just the fear of crashing a expensive heli. So I built a 500 clone and I was still scared of it not crashing but hitting in to me! So I bought a MCPX and this little baby has given my alot of confidence and I can fly it well in any direction. I am tying it on my 500 clone very high up and I'm getting better every flight.

I have 8 helis and every one of them flies slightly different
So best is stick with one and get it right first.

I can only give this advice

begin with sim
try the real thing with MCPX or similar (cheap to repair)
try it with the main heli (stick with 1 heli) up high slowly work your way down lower.

[Huma]

Originally Posted by v2kdj

Best bit of advise i read when flying nose in was to move the stick towards where the heli is heading....confused......
If the heli is nose in an headin left...ease stick left too......if its goin right ease stick right.......if its comin at you.....ease stick towards you too.....
Try this on the sim first.....its what did the trick for me!!!

Good luck an keep up the practice.

Oh my god! That helped so much! This awesome little bit of advice prompted my own personal click moment for nose in hovering. In a matter of seconds I am able to nose in hover in phoenix. This is awesome.

I still need to drill it in and get some muscle memory going for that orientation and I still need to get the side orientations down pat but thank you so much for sharing that little insight that has been eluding me all this time.

It's so nice to make progress every now and then. I think I just might have to buy myself an MCPX v2 in the near future as a reward. Heheh

[SurfCity]

Originally Posted by jdFin

Sometimes I wonder.... is it old dogs and new tricks? I just passed 50, which gave me the great excuse to go out and get some toys I've been eyeing since the '70s. Is it just the video game generation that can fly these things like I saw at the fun fly in Temecula? Okay, that's a pipe-dream.... but how about just flying around like an airplane? Or are any of you out there kids of the '60s that have recently picked up this hobby and can do it?

I'm 62 and can do it. Okay, not 3D yet, but not bad. I started with helis (and RC for that matter) at 58. I'm self-employed and busy, so I don't get much time to fly --- a few batteries a week is a good week. And I fly alone with help only from the Internet.

Began with a Blade CX. Flew it indoors. It took me maybe three months to be able to land on a CD case in any orientation, and by then I was ready for something real. The Gaui 200 was introduced about then; same size as the Blade, could even share batteries, so I bought it. TOTALLY DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE. Second flight I just slammed it into the house, no clue how. Absolutely baffled. Spent a couple weeks piecing it back together, added training gear, then spent days scooting it around the driveway inches from the ground.

After nine months, though, I still couldn't hold a decent, tail-in hover; the heli was all over like a dragonfly on meth. Thinking I'm not THAT ham-handed, I got wondering if the problem was the heli, so I bought a Beam E4 (450) and fit it with the best components to rule out mechanical issues. First time it lifted off and hung motionless in the air was a revelation. Absolutely thrilling. I turned it sideways and it just hung there. Turned it the other direction, same thing. Oh, THAT'S how it's supposed to be! So the Beam taught me about how a heli should be set up.

The Gaui's a great heli, but turns out it's definitely not for beginners, and because it's so tiny, it must be set up perfectly, which I hadn't yet learned how to do (links too sloppy, etc.)

Even with my limited time, today I can hover in all orientations, fly slow, fast, and extremely fast forward flight, slow and fast backward flight, forward and backward circles and eights, and tail slides. I can fly it fast and high and far like an airplane, limited only by my eyesight, which gives me trouble sometimes and has caused some crashes. I'm better forward than backward, but forward's also had more practice. I can fly upside down on the sim but haven't yet tried it for real. That's next on my list.

I've had two breakthroughs. The first was when a friend told me that to hover nose-in, just move the stick the direction the heli's moving. If it's moving toward you, move the stick toward you. If it's moving to your right, move your stick to the right. And so on. It was a revelation; I could hover nose-in the next day, and to this day it's as easy as tail-in. Side hovering takes more concentration.

Second was when I began learning slow pirouettes. Very slow. 10-20 seconds per piro, both directions. Slow is important; it forces you to learn every orientation. It looks boring, but it's intense and engaging. After that, circles come naturally; they're just pirouettes with a bit of forward or backward speed thrown in.

Anyway, the answer to your question is yes, busy old guys who just picked up the hobby can learn it. Not as fast as I'd like, but hey, who's hurrying? Even my neighbor who's older than me is learning helis. Go for it.

[Huma]

Originally Posted by SurfCity

Second was when I began learning slow pirouettes. Very slow. 10-20 seconds per piro, both directions. Slow is important; it forces you to learn every orientation. It looks boring, but it's intense and engaging. After that, circles come naturally; they're just pirouettes with a bit of forward or backward speed thrown in.

SurfCity,

What do you mean slow pirouettes? I am definately a newbie and do not mind asking dumb questions, hehe.

Do you just rotate the tail and make it so it takes 10-20 seconds per 360 deg. rotation? You're trying to keep it in a stable hover in the same place throughout the whole piro so you are forced to adjust in all orientations?

I think I may practice this, but I want to be sure I am understanding it correctly. Well, I WILL practice this as it sounds like a challenge even if I am misunderstanding.

Thanks in advance.

[Raysun]

I didn't read all the posts but here is what worked for me. Need an MSR, and lots of room with your go to real heli. Forget the sim, its not real life.

Take an MSR, and start taking off and landing nose in. Yup, nose in. Force yourself. Its essentially crashproof so nothing to lose. Do it outside in the back yard.

Next, do figure 8's with the big guy. Give yourself lots of room, get up high, and just do figure 8's turning away from yourself. You will get used to the image of the heli flying towards you then turning away.

Took me five months of endless figure 8's and back and forth FFF. But once you get it, it stays and your flying will improve really fast. I went from hovering to loops and rolls in six months. But had to work at nose in. Now I do all my takeoffs and landings (500 class) side in or nose in. Have to force yourself. It will come. Once you have nose in, your flying will become fearless. Work at it, don't quit. Have lots of spare parts on hand too. Its the hardest thing you will do, but once there, its great.

[Raysun]

Just one more thought on the topic, I found learning nose in much easier when flying forward towards myself and then turning away, instead of hovering. Work up to hovering, slow piros are actually very hard to do. Don't spend time on those till you can fly (not hover) nose in. Work on flying nose in, hovering nose in will come later when the sight of the heli's nose is no longer a source of terror.

[SurfCity]

Originally Posted by Huma

Do you just rotate the tail and make it so it takes 10-20 seconds per 360 deg. rotation? You're trying to keep it in a stable hover in the same place throughout the whole piro so you are forced to adjust in all orientations?

Yes, this is exactly correct.

[HvyMtl]

a Lot of good advice. I'm still learning also.

I've done most of my practising (especially orientation) with a Blade Scout. I'm not recommending this method because it is hard to go from its controller to a normal heli but, that is what has boon working for me so far.

I am a couch pilot with my Scout, MCPX and 120sr. I get a little too crazy practicing outdoors but indoors practising, I know that IF I hit that TV set (or her) my wife will kill me So I know I have to pay that much more attention and get it right. Outdoors I have all that space and am all over the place . Any suggestions for this dilemma?

[Trump1]

Originally Posted by hndaluvr

Yep...
I learned the same way.... "tip - or - touch" the rotor disk on the edge that's dropping.
worked like a dream for me.

I can visualize the "tip or touch" method working for me. I can't wait to try this.

Originally Posted by v2kdj

Best bit of advise i read when flying nose in was to move the stick towards where the heli is heading....confused......
If the heli is nose in an headin left...ease stick left too......if its goin right ease stick right.......if its comin at you.....ease stick towards you too.....
Try this on the sim first.....its what did the trick for me!!!

Good luck an keep up the practice.

The above advise worked for me with one variation for forward and backwards. When I want the heli to move forward, I say to myself "forward" and then move the stick forward (up) and when I want to the heli to move back I say to myself "back" and then move the stick back (down).

It's kind of goofy talking to yourself, but it's working for me. I hope this helps someone with nose in orientation.

Eric