The help me understand how the gov works thread

[Luvmyhelis]

Originally Posted by omerco

Which firmware rev? 4.07? if not than you have to start with that phase sensor issue. I also think you got lost there with the 10/10 low/high...
go back to 80/120 and we need to try again from there.

EDIT: checked the logs on my 4.07: there is no anomaly. this means your phase sensor is bad or badly connected - as Georgi already wrote.

I already set my ramps back, just waiting on the word!

Originally Posted by georgi UK

=] Thanks Omer!

Alright, both geniuses have come to an agreement?

I pulled the entire HW sensor and harness. Bummer as it was all covered with braided cool looking stuff. Ran my Vu across everything and it all looked good, so I robbed the sensor out of my Chase. Then rewired and soldered it all into place. When I spooled up, I was happy and embarrassed at the same time. You nailed it guys! Bad sensor.

[georgi UK]

=] thanks Randy, good to hear you've nailed it! Been a great week all in all! 🚡

[omerco]

Originally Posted by trillian

Mine are 100/150/100 but I just updated the firmware to 4.07 and have not flown it yet so we'll see how this works now. On my last flights I was getting a hint of overspeeding when the head was unloaded. Now that I have the gain on the TX I can see if upping the gain makes it better or worse.

Start with the gain, but if that desn't work than the Overrdrive is in charge exactly on that. Try lower values. But first set the gain.

[Colin Broughton]

What's the difference between heli fast and airplane fast? I've always set my esc up as airplane fast. That's how I was first taught and have done it ever since. I'll try and find it but I remember watching set up videos and they say to use airplane fast when running external gov?

I'll have to check my logs I guess but off hand I have not noticed and weird spool up tendencies.

[omerco]

Heli fast: fast SS
AIRPLANE fast: no SS. Fast throttle responce (important for ext gov).

For external gov there is a special sequence which enables both. Watch on Mr Mell site:

http://heli.dacsa.net/MrMelSite/styled-4/index.html

[Luvmyhelis]

Originally Posted by Badhelipilot

What's the difference between heli fast and airplane fast? I've always set my esc up as airplane fast. That's how I was first taught and have done it ever since. I'll try and find it but I remember watching set up videos and they say to use airplane fast when running external gov?

I'll have to check my logs I guess but off hand I have not noticed and weird spool up tendencies.

I tried this myself way back when. And started blowing main gears out during my spool ups. So that didn't work in my case.

Georgi, been thinking about you posting the internal info about the gov hand off. What if we just use the normal log views, and draw a line about the time the hand off actually occurs in the ramp? And what are the gov ramps that are not able to catch the hand off in both low and high versions? Where the ramps deviate too much?

Got all mine sorted except my Chase, which is in rebuild stage and may be for a while. ( kinda broke this summer)
But I have a number of local SK equipped helis to try and nail.

[georgi UK]

Originally Posted by Luvmyhelis

I tried this myself way back when. And started blowing main gears out during my spool ups. So that didn't work in my case.

Georgi, been thinking about you posting the internal info about the gov hand off. What if we just use the normal log views, and draw a line about the time the hand off actually occurs in the ramp? And what are the gov ramps that are not able to catch the hand off in both low and high versions? Where the ramps deviate too much?

Got all mine sorted except my Chase, which is in rebuild stage and may be for a while. ( kinda broke this summer)
But I have a number of local SK equipped helis to try and nail.

=] Hey bro! It's delicate, I'm trying to get Art to give us the once and for all, no myths gov analogy, I drew this out before if you remember? When it was first released!

Obviously the low ramp allows the ESC to do its spool up, at some point the SK gov merges with, and there is a window of opportunity here! the ESC ramp and takes over.

This we know, the high ramp is concerned with above 50% throttle and works essentially between normal idle 1 & 2 head speeds, going from one to the other in a time dictated by the ramp.

Which leaves overdrive, Art has said this value is the actual RPM's you allow the heli to have if bogging is detected, in my view 100 is fine for electrics!

So, lastly, I hope the fires are under control, I know there are 2 states of Washington? And hope it's not me that has caused financial probs? just say!!!

[Luvmyhelis]

Very interesting info, especially about the 100% OD on our electrics! I always wondered why an over spool was needed here?

I also learned the startup power auto in the YGE YEP esc's is not a good idea. Seems letting the esc decide how it ramps on its own is hit and miss? My Gob 700 simply would not get out of trying to spool up repeatedly out at the field yesterday using this setting. It would try and ramp up then slow down again, over and over. Even after re powering the system. So I am back to at it again. Also I had to reset my Gob 800s spool, as the heli fast had it doing a full 180 during the spool, even in good grassy turf. So both my Gobs still need gov work.

However, my friends new Gob 700 took right off and we nailed the gov first try. We set it and also his 720B equipped 600 with a flat 40 in norm. So they heli slow spool coming right out of TH and settle right down into the gov'd HS.

I had forgotten how adrenaline filled a new 700 owners first day out was. We were laughing about needing mens depends diapers for new 700 owners. It was a blast to watch. His is equipped with the 4035 Hyperion (basically a Scorp with higher end parts).

I find it quite interesting that my over powered helis seem hard to engage, but the more docile ones seem to engage the gov real easy?

Georgi, how is the scaler coming along?

Omerco, thanks for posting that Mr Mel link! Now I understand! However seems all my esc's are pre 11, as they only have the program leads, no phase sensor on any of them. Could be why I got such a good deal on them? Lol.

[omerco]

LMH
the startup power on the YEP is only for the first kick of startup. it has no effect later. Being strong - its better to use 2%. I have found the YEP to be problematic at that. I also had glitches causing a really strong startup rotating the heli in place even more than 180...

And for the rest of your problems - post your current log and lets see what can be done.

The phase sensor on the esc IS the program lead - used for programming and when done and connected to a modified harness - phase sensor. no extra lead for that. same as in scorpion by the way.

[Luvmyhelis]

From 2011 on the prog lead has the sensor, before it didn't. Nailed the gov hand off on both the 7 and 8 yesterday. Test flights this afternoon. Mucho gracious for all the help so far. The 700 is still heli fast at 4%, the 8 is heli med also at 4%. Test flights this afternoon.

[omerco]

[Luvmyhelis]

Ok, finally some easy flight logs. I was real sick for a month and was just grounded. First two (93, 94) are off the 600, second sets (431, 432) off the 700. Odd, the 700 again missed the hand off on the first one, but grabbed it on flight two? Also bogging badly on fairly easy moves? Third sets (56, 57) off the 800, and finally I will fly and post two off the Triabolo. All just doing easy basic norm and invert orientation 8s and some basic 3d stuff. Omer, I will try 2%, as I do prefer a softer spool).

Edit:
Ahh, couldn't wait on the Triabolo, got rid of the garbage (high vibe) Kbdd's on the tail giving me grief and stuck some Rjx's on there instead. Log 50. Just hovering and a couple pitch pumps, I instantly had a crowd of excited peeps and had to land. (log 50)

[georgi UK]

=] from what I can see bro the gearing or headspeeds are wrong apart from the last log, like going up a hill in 6th gear. the gov output is overloaded, this is not efficient or optimal.

It's daunting for me to go through more than 2 logs at a time!, so I've only extracted the basics for each log. the checks for you being correct SK gov gear ratio, the physical gearing, headspeeds set too high? and can I check if your gov gain is Tx adjustable, or not?

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on a personal note, I've done it!!! hardware will be here tomorrow, and "something" will be heading your way! it will blow your doors off mate!

[Luvmyhelis]

Thanks Georgi! I actually changed my pinion in the 700 due to Omer's advice, which by the book is correct? Maybe drop it a tooth again? Gains are locked in the Skookums. I don't trust myself doing it through the tx as it adds unneeded complexity. Same as my basic fears for some new pilots with Gps going on. So many toggles doing so many things. Good info and I will double check my head speeds vs gov, which I assume can be at 90% still? Or am I better at 80?

And you know me, I always love new ideas and can't wait to see what you mastered! As for multiple logs, I am trying to keep the thread as short as possible. And plan on coming back when finished if we can and simply cutting most the stuff out so we can compile a clean info thread or even a new one for a sticky. My stuff isn't important in that aspect.

I would also assume the Velos Martin just got will still only need one phase sensor based off one motor, as two slightly out of rpm phase would certainly cloud the logic?

[omerco]

I'm sorry I didn't find the time to check the logs. Hopefully tomorrow

[georgi UK]

=] maybe on the 600 say?, we get that motor singing going down on the pinion further, then you will see the benefits of that and want to apply it to the others.

Post as many logs as you want!! I'm hoping the "package" will let you see precisely the ramp knowledge you seek?!!

But, does jello velo take a phase from each motor to the sensor as an average? That should get him going!!!

[Luvmyhelis]

Originally Posted by omerco

I'm sorry I didn't find the time to check the logs. Hopefully tomorrow

I understand, most guys have lives other than the forums.

Originally Posted by georgi UK

=] maybe on the 600 say?, we get that motor singing going down on the pinion further, then you will see the benefits of that and want to apply it to the others.

Post as many logs as you want!! I'm hoping the "package" will let you see precisely the ramp knowledge you seek?!!

But, does jello velo take a phase from each motor to the sensor as an average? That should get him going!!!

Lol, yeah, that was funny for sure.

The hand off ramps are just the basic start of what I want to learn here.

And kinda limited on my Six as it already sports the lowest 11T mod 01 6mm shaft based pinion, but runs the 630kv Scorp motor I got a killer deal on. Looks like I may have to change this out or live with the bog (we all know that isn't going to last long). Which isn't nearly as noticeable on the 6 as it is on my 7.
Hmm, the other option is to source a step down 5mm motor shaft and see if there is still a 9 or 10T still available anywhere.

[omerco]

- Log 93 - rpm sensor looks wrong at the spool. could be faulty. high ramp still too fast/SS too slow they are not coordinated between them and overshoots. your HIGH is on 120 so I would increase the SS but its up to you if you like the current spool or not. I totally agree with Georgi about the Gearing! If I have told you otherwise then I was wrong. you want to have around 80% for good overhead while you now have 50-60.

Watch the wrong signal at first spool, and the overshoot and settling down of the RPM:


Edit: Another thought about the gearing - could be you are just not doing any thing i hard enough to cause the gov output to go up. that is what I see next with the goblin - once you start doing things it goes all the way up to 100%. this makes me also think maybe your batteries are weak?

[omerco]

Goblin - log 431:
Same 2 problems - RPM signal glitch at the beginning and RPM overshoot - but here it is worse because I think that is what causes the governor to not engage properly: SS too slow for the ramps, governor feeds throttle to try and raise RPM all the way up to 100%, RPM overshoots and then gets stuck at around 2250 with 60% throttle.



If you manage to get the governor output to follow the spool I believe it will be solved, and as we said before the ways to do it are:
1 - increase SS speed.
2. Decrease high ramp.

The gearing here is correct for 3D - we can see it hit the 100% few times by the end of the flight where you push it - but as written before I suspect the batteries.

[omerco]

log 56: Exactly the same: glitch in the RPM signal at start (YGE?? I had something similar with YEP) then an overshoot and finally for the gearing - when you do some elevator tic tocs at the end you go from 65% to straight 100% and the RPM doesn't hold.