logo 400 battery help [Now Chipped Main Gear]

[ChrisH]

Yes maarset go to Mod .7! The smaller pinion isn't as much of a deal with larger surface area on the teeth.

[maarset]

Ok my MOD 0.7 stuff is showing up today. Then hopefully I will have a troubel free logo.

Worse case sinario I put the swift gearing in it. But I don't really want my logo to sound like my swift did.

[ke6d]

The castle governor mode is stripping your gear I had the same problem with one of my 2 logo 400s. Before upgrading to mod .7 main gear, I was running 2600 rpm just fine for over 100 flights on the CC85HV on fixed end point. As soon as I switched to governor mode on the CC, the first main gear stripped after less than 10 flights. I stripped 3 more main gears within a week before upgrading to mod .7 main gear. That logo runs for over 200 more flights since on the mod .7 gear (Scorpion 3026-1600, 11T pinion) at 2600+ rpm without killing anymore gear - I switched back to fixed end point heli mode because I did not like the governor mode on CC on spool up (it over-speeds and throttles back very abruptly when the headspeed reached)

My 2nd logo 400 still runs on the mod .5 main gear at 2300 for over 100 flights now without stripping a single gear (17T pinion on a Hacker 1350 KV motor) I also run fixed end point heli mode on this heli since day 1.

[ke6d]

Originally Posted by maarset

Ok my MOD 0.7 stuff is showing up today. Then hopefully I will have a troubel free logo.

Worse case sinario I put the swift gearing in it. But I don't really want my logo to sound like my swift did.

One thing you will notice right away is that your L400 on mod .7 gear will sound a lot louder than it used to be. It is the reason why I still keep one of my logo 400 on .5 main gear.

The other thing you will find out is the the mod .7 pinion is a lot taller than the mod .5 pinion so you will need a 2-3 mm spacer for the motor (otherwise the top edge of the main gear will touch the curve part of the pinion and damage the main gear)

[maarset]

Ke6d
AH THANKS! So I’m Not Going Crazy Here!!! When I first started stripping main gears with the Castle on Set RPM I kept lowering the gain and that helped a little bit. But now my gain is so low it actually isn’t working that great. And I still STRIPPED A GEAR!

Thanks so much for the input and the tips Ke6d. Now I don’t feel so Crazy. I kept thinking I must have been over looking something.

IMO
The latest CC firmware is a lot better than it used to be and it doesn’t do that over speed when it spools up. But when I’m flying around really hard I can still get the heli to overspeed sometimes. I guess I just put up with it. I don’t find that it is hurting my flying and learning new skills at all.

[maarset]

Well I upgraded my gearing to MOD 0.7. 12T pinion. I also put a full size MKS BLS980 tail servo on it.
Before doing all this work my L400 was performing awesome. Hands off hovering at 2200, 2300 and 2400 HS.
Spooled up the heli after doing this work at 2200 HS in the backyard and the heli was all over the place. I couldn’t even hover it.
Totally confused, I went through the vbar setup again. Went through and made sure the swash was level through the collective travel and what not. Replaced the Spartan gyro pad on the vbar sensor with a brand new Spartan pad. Tried to hover again and the same thing was going on. It was moving all over the place.

I noticed that there was a lot of slop between the tail drive gear and the main shaft so I got rid of that slop. That helped a little bit but it still was no good. Dropped the Castle gov down to 1900 HS and perfect hands off hovering.

So that is telling me that I have a bad vibration problem. I pulled the main blades off and spooled it up to 1900. No vibes. At 2300 you can see the boom supports blurring, tightened those up. But I was still getting a general vibration from the whole heli. I couldn’t tell where it was coming from. I put the stock plastic tail blades on and checked for vibrations and was still getting some vibrations.
With no blades on the heli but the Main rotor head and tail unit still on the heli the vibrations didn’t seem too bad.

I re-balanced my edge CF blades that have been in a couple of crashes. I noticed one of the edge tail blades had a small nick. I was getting less vibrations when I re-balanced the edge blades. Now it hovers great at 2100 HS so I did a auto trim flight.
It does hover better at HS over 2100 but I can still tell it hovers kind of nervous like over 2100 HS. It just won’t sit still, but it is manageable.

I mounted the MOD 0.7 pinion up as high as I could and didn’t have to use any spacers between the scorpion and the aluminum motor mount. I just have a tiny bit of backlash. I wonder if the larger mod gearing transmits more vibrations? I’ll probably pick up a new set of edge tail blades to see if that helps. If that doesn’t help I was going to upgrade to vbar firmware 5.0 so I can use the logging. I watched the MrMel vids on this and it seems pretty cool. Well worth the upgrade.

It just seems so odd that everything was fine before I did all this work.

The only other thing I did was I made a large CF plate that mounts on the lower part of the frame under the main shaft and bridges the frame together. I did that because I thought I would have to fit the sensor forward, in front of tail servo since I was putting a bigger tail servo on the Logo. When I had the sensor on the new CF plate just behind the main shaft, the sensor was not perpendicular with the main shaft. So I left the CF plate there and was able to mount the sensor next to the tail servo on the lower shelf like I had it before doing all this work. It just seems so weird that I am having a vibration problem now.

[maarset]

Well wind calmed down so I went and flew 4 packs at lunch. My flightmodes on my L400 were 2100 2300 and 2400 for the Castle.
Did three flights at 2100 and one flight at 2300. Flew perfect. The standard size tail servo (MKS) was AWESOME!

I found that I had awesome tail control at lower HS with this tail servo compared to the JR 3500G.
With the MOD 0.7 gearing I had a little more overhead and I was able to up the castle gov gain from 18 to 24 and that helped SO MUCH!
I found I was enjoying flying at 2100 (I think it is 2100) doing smooth 3D and rainbows and it was totally due able. I know I’m going to get slammed for this but the Castle ESC was working better than it ever has. Because of the higher gain I could run I was doing the same stuff I was doing at 2300 HS, at 2100 HS. And my flight times will probably go over 6min.

I didn’t really notice any vibration issues, but I will still upgrade to 5.0 so I can start looking at the flight logs.

Yes the L400 was a little more noisier with the MOD 0.7 but not too bad.

[ChrisH]

Glad to hear you have it working now man. Now keep it that way!

And BTW you will love 5.0 Pro ... it's awesome.

[maarset]

Yah I put it on the bench last night and carefully spun it up with no tail blades and main blades. There was barely any vibration. I tightened up the belt a little and that helped even more. There was minimal vibrations with no blades. Then I put the edge tail blades on and disconnected the tail linkage. At Idle 2 as I moved my finger down the boom towards the tail I could feel the vibration increase as I got closer to the tail. So I’m definitely getting vibrations from the tail. I balanced the stock plastic tail blades and put them on and the vibrations seemed lower than with the edge blades. So I did some hovering in the back patio and it totally hovers perfect with no nervousness at all headspeeds.
So I’ll use the plastic blades till I can get some more CF tail blades.

[ChrisH]

I had a few bad sets of Edge tails too, and tail blades are pretty hard to balance IMO. In terms of balance the best brand I've had luck with have been Radix...

[llbr22]

in terms of performance, I put the edge's on for the bling factor to match my mains.. but the stock ones seemed to hold better. But I'm still getting my stretched 400 dialed in.

[maarset]

Yah I was surprised how well those plastic tail blades are holding up. We went flying in the rain today here in Sacra ‘tomato.
I was doing fast backwards passes and then steering the tail into a fast banked turn into a fast backwards loop with a lot of collective and you could barely hear the tail blades. Tail just holds like concrete. But the MKS BLS980 tail servo is like .03 sec at 6V and 3.10 KG Torque which probably helps.

Mike

[maarset]

Well I’m now officially done with Logo 400 MOD 0.5 gearing! I swear it’s not me.

I tried the MOD 0.7 for a while. It was noisier and it seemed like it was causing more vibration maybe. But it held up great.
So I went back to MOD 0.5. I stopped using the Castle Gov and was flying a simple throttle V curve.

Second time out with the Logo non-gov and with a new MOD 0.5 main gear I chipped a single tooth off of the main gear. 55 degree’s here in sunny California.
No backlash in the drive train.

Still flies ok with the tooth chipped. Going to get my money’s worth from that main gear and the spare one I have. I’ve been able to get the heli down in the past if I roast the main gear in flight. It just sounds like I put a playing card in my bicycle spokes.

It seems that I chip teeth when I do really hard fast pitch pumps. So I will stop doing those with the MOD 0.5 gearing. And I will go back to using the castle gov cause my logo seems to have more power at lower headspeeds if I use the gov.

I just hate having the helicopter limit my flying.

I don’t think I’ll be fully happy with my logo until I get a logo 500 going.

OH AND PS!
Santa brought me some Edge 423 FBL main blades and some new 72 mm edge CF tail blades. The new tail blades are vibration free and working better than the stock plastic blades. I can tell they are better when I’m doing fast forward flight piro’s. They just do the job better. And the Edge 423 blades ARE A LOT FASTER CYCLIC WISE than the 430mm rotortechs. I have to be a lot smoother on the cyclic. But they are a lot of fun. They are shorter than the rotortechs but weight the same.

[maarset]

Now I don't get it. I put the MOD 0.7 gearing on the L400.
Any headspeed over 2100 on the ground the heli wants to tip over on the ground.
On the bench with the main blades off and the tail blades on, and the tail control rod disconnected I can spool up the heli up over 2100 with no vibration.

I put the MOD 0.5 gearing back on and I could hover it again over 2100 headspeed.

I just don't get it. I've used the MOD 0.7 gearing before with no issues.

[mak24seven]

At the risk of sounding stupid could someone explain the mod 0.5 and 0.7 to me :o , i'm popping out tomorrow to pick a couple of pinions up for my new logo, i'm running my trex 500 motor and have been told to get the 0.5,

[maarset]

If you have the black main gear that comes with the kit then it is MOD 0.5 which is the same tooth size as a Trex 450 main gear I believe. So MOD 0.5 main gear has to be paired up with a MOD 0.5 pinion.
MOD 0.7 is a bigger tooth and stronger.

[mak24seven]

Thank you, it all makes sence now. God help me when I get my mini v tomorrow and get set for the 1st hover lol.

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by maarset

Now I don't get it. I put the MOD 0.7 gearing on the L400.
Any headspeed over 2100 on the ground the heli wants to tip over on the ground.
On the bench with the main blades off and the tail blades on, and the tail control rod disconnected I can spool up the heli up over 2100 with no vibration.

I put the MOD 0.5 gearing back on and I could hover it again over 2100 headspeed.

I just don't get it. I've used the MOD 0.7 gearing before with no issues.

Mike, does it do this in flight as well? I had a couple sets of imbalanced Radix main blades that exhibited this same effect on my L400 V-Bar when I had it. Any HS above a certain point, the heli would dip or dive in a hover in random directions -- i.e. not stable at all. Try going back to your 'control' blade (the RotorTechs) and see if the same behavior occurs. My thinking is the Edge may need a couple pieces of tape.

[maarset]

Originally Posted by mak24seven

Thank you, it all makes sence now. God help me when I get my mini v tomorrow and get set for the 1st hover lol.

LOL I’ve been there. Make sure plenty of people are watching and videoing the event.
Finger on the throttle hold. Whats the worse that can happen J

Spool the heli up first with no main blades and tail control rod disconnected and carefully feel around the heli for vibrations.
If all is good double check how the swash moves and do it on grass. You’ll be fine.

[OICU812]

First off I'm not being rude. It's not the gear it's the setup.

Castles as it's been obviously discussed in depth have too agressive of catch in their catch. So u can keep backing it off but if your not happy with performance then run fixed curve or get a Kontronik. Tooth count is also way to low for the combination of power and the castles way of dealing with it. Sure putting in mod .7 helps but still the castles way will still be bothersome. See it as bashing no, it is what it is. I ran 2800 headspeed 14/14 pitch and rammed my 400 like a red headed stepchild and never seen that happen not once. This was scorp 1400 and a 19 tooth pinion and jive 60. Keys there obviously the tooth count helps a ton and the jives way of dealing with power. Tooth count is your biggest issue for sure though.

So if not wanting to get jive, get lower kv motor increase tooth count or try the mod .7. But it's nice if you can make the system work all well together as it should and you'd enjoy the heli far more IMO.