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500 Pro Class Electric Helicopters 500 Pro Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar. |
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07-08-2014, 11:43 AM | #1 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Smyrna, GA
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Align 500 Pro Stretch. Its a real 500 now!
My tired 500 Pro was in need of servicing, with worn head dampers and lots of servo slop, so I decided now would be a great opportunity to do a true 500mm blade stretch mod that I have been thinking about for a while. The mod was very easy to do, and only took me a weekend of taking my time, including taking care of all of the worn parts. Total cost of the stretch was about $130-$150 depending on how many things you may already have laying around to use. This includes new main and tail blades which were most of the cost at about $100 in my case
The Boom: A new boom was easy to source, and I used a K&S 5/8 X 36 inch thin walled ally tubing that I found at my LHS for $6. Its a perfect fit, and you can also find them online if not at the LHS. http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXRW82 The stock boom is 460mm, so I cut the new boom to 530mm, and used a Dremel to cut the notch that is used on one end to key into the boom block. I waited until the very end to drill the hole on the tail gear box end, so that I could make sure the tail gear box would be assembled straight before marking the hole. The Torque Tube: For the longer TT, you will need (2) torque tubes, (4) bearings and rubber holders, (1) 6cm piece of 4mm solid carbon fiber rod (an old boom strut works perfectly for this), (1) 3cm piece of K&S 5/16 X .035mm thick walled ally tubing, also available at the LHS or online http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...57ZxoCkQXw_wcB The part that concerned me the most was building a longer torque tube that wouldn’t vibrate, and could hold up without failing. I had already experimented with a few different methods prior to do this, and I settled on the “joiner” method described below. I tested this method by placing a pre-built test shaft in a vice, and locking a pair of pliers onto the shaft spline and twisting as hard as I could. The TT shaft finally broke in two from the force, but above where I had joined them together, so I’m comfortable that this technique is solid, and the TT will break just about anywhere else except where I joined them together. The stock TT is 500mm measured from tip to tip, so the new TT will need to be 570mm. I wanted the joint to be dead center on the shaft, so I started with two shafts each cut down to 285mm. The 6cm piece of CF is used to glue the halves together internally using J B Weld, and the 3cm thick walled ally piece is used to cover and glue the outer portion of the joint together. This combination is extremely strong. I started by placing a small piece of shrink wrap or tape in the center of the CF joiner. This is because the CF is not a super tight fit inside the TT. The shrink wrap fills this void and forces the two TT halves to fit tightly and mate evenly when pressed together. It also prevents the CF joiner from sliding inside the TT after the two halves are fitted together. Make sure to coat the entire joiner in JB Weld, and swirl it around well inside of the TT halves. Once you have glued the joiner in, you will want to JB Weld the outer ally piece over the joint. Always sand or roughen up both the CF inner joiner and outer portion of the TT where the ally is glued for best adhesion. The longer TT will not be straight if you lay it down to let it cure up. There is still enough play at the joint so that it will sag at the joint seam under its own weight. To prevent this, I placed the shaft upright in a vice to let the glue harden for about 1.5 hours. Its still pliable at this point, but hard enough to be handled for the next step. The next step is to CA glue the 4 TT bearings on the shaft, making sure that they are not evenly spaced on the TT to reduce the chance of harmonic vibes. Then I installed the rubber bearing holders over the bearings, lubricated them and slipped the entire assembly into the new boom, and placed both the gear box and tail assembly temporarily onto the boom and shaft as if completed. This acts a jig to hold the shaft straight within the boom and gearboxes as the JB Weld cures completely overnight. You should have a TT that is just as good and straight as stock when done. The Boom Braces: I took the easy way out here and simply purchased a set of Align 550/600 boom braces. They are identical the stock 500 braces, only 90mm longer. In a perfect scenario, I would have cut them down a bit shorter before using them, however for once the ends were glued on very well, so I decided to use them as is rather than risk breaking the CF trying to remove the end caps. This places the boom mounting location about 75% back the total length of the boom, which looks ok. The Tail Control Rod: I already had a spare piece of solid 4mm CF rod from another project that was perfect for a longer tail rod, but sourcing this shouldn’t be difficult. Many LHS will have decent 4mm rod, or you could modify one made for a 550/600 sized heli and cut it down. I used Synergy E5 tail rod ends for this project, although they are a little pricey. http://www.helidirect.com/synergy-ta...nd-p-28799.hdx The Blades: My blades of choice for this were the new Blackline 2D SAB 500mm blades. They are the exact same chord width as the stock blades, just 75mm longer. They weigh about 60 grams per pair more than the stock blades. http://www.helidirect.com/sab-500mm-...2d-p-35878.hdx My intention with this stretch was to see if I could get the 500 to feel lighter and more floaty, and use a low head speed for long sport flying if possible. Everyone knows that the Pro tail gearing requires at least 2800 RPM or else you risk tail blow outs in fast backward flight. Making the boom longer increases the amount of leverage the tail has, but I also made the main blades longer, so most if not all of that extra leverage will be lost to the added torque from swinging the bigger main blades. I decided to go with a pair of tail blades that were made for a 500, but have more surface area than stock, so I went with a pair of Radix 72mm tail blades. http://www.helidirect.com/curtis-you...72-p-23741.hdx You can see they are a good bit larger than the stock Align blades, so hopefully this will help with my low RPM flight testing. I have vibration logging software on my FBL unit, and initial bench testing with all but the main blades installed showed no vibration issues at all form the new TT. Vibe levels were as low if not a little lower than they were before doing the mod, so nothing left to do but get her in the air and see how well she flies! In the air and few final numbers: I tested three governed RPMs today, 2500, 2600 and 2700 RPM. The performance of the heli was great even at 2500 RPM! I really didn’t expect the larger disc to make such a big difference, but 2500 RPM with the 500mm blades felt just like 3000 RPM on the stock setup. Pitch changes were fast, and forward speed was very quick, so the model didn’t feel like I was running any reduced head speed from normal. There were two main issues I was concerned with which were quickly put to rest. First was that the heavier blade mass would cause my motor and ESC to heat up. Ambient temps for flight were 85F/30C, so things were already hot to begin with, but the motor never got above 120F, and the ESC logs show a max of 117F for the castle ESC, so there is no problem with the bigger blades at all. The second worry was that the tail would blow out at 2500 RPM. I could easily blow my tail out even at 2800 in stock form. All I had to do was fly fast backward, and then slowly start to piro. The tail would let loose and the heli would do a fast 180* and swap directions. I did this test again many times today at 2500 RPM and could never get the tail to let go. It appears either the longer boom and larger tail blades, or both are able to hold without issue. My next step is to drop the 12T pinion down to an 11T for some final testing this weekend at 2300 and 2400 RPM. The performance is so good at 2500, that I can easily drop another couple hundred RPM assuming the tail will cooperate. Flight time today from the 3300 mAh packs at 2500 RPM was 6.5 minutes, so I expect to get 8 minute sport flights if I can get down to 2300 RPM My setup: Scorpion 1600KV 11T pinion Pulse 3300 mAh Castle Edge 75 governed 2300,2400,2500 RPM SAB 500mm Blackline 2D blades Radix 72mm tail blades All up weight after stretch with battery 4.8lbs/2.1kg. COG balance with 3300 mAh packs after stretch was spot on
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Tony Synergy 516, Gaui R-5 Speed (RIP), Cypher Vtol Jet (RIP), Spirit FBL, Hobbywing and Scorpion Tribunus ESC, Xnova motors. The girl in my DX9 tells them all what to do Last edited by Xrayted; 07-12-2014 at 07:16 AM.. |
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07-08-2014, 01:25 PM | #2 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Maryland
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Thank you for this experiment and write-up! I've been wanting to go bigger for a little while now, but don't have the funds for a new heli. Once I use up my stock of current blades, I'm definitely going to give this a try!
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<> Trex 600 ESP FBL, Trex 500 ESP FBL, Gaui X3, Oxy 3 <> <> Builds in progress: Logo 600SX, Synergy 516 <> *Spartan Vortex VX1e*
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07-08-2014, 01:38 PM | #3 (permalink) | |
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Smyrna, GA
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Quote:
This setup is incredibly light compared to some other 500mm setups. Its 3/4lb lighter than the new HD500, and 1.1lbs lighter than the Goblin 500. Im looking forward to seeing how low I can go with the head speed.
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Tony Synergy 516, Gaui R-5 Speed (RIP), Cypher Vtol Jet (RIP), Spirit FBL, Hobbywing and Scorpion Tribunus ESC, Xnova motors. The girl in my DX9 tells them all what to do |
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07-08-2014, 03:54 PM | #4 (permalink) |
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Thanks for an excellent write up Xrayted. I like the way you did the lengthening of the TT.. How did you wrap the boom?
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Allan TREX 250 PRO,Talon15, GPRO, Zeal ----TREX 500 EFL PRO, GPRO, RAILS ----2x TREX 450PRO V2, 1xGPRO&1xBRAIN, Talon35, RAIL , Zeal ---- SAVOX powered TREX500 EFL in Roban scale UH1-N ---- TREX 600 EFL PRO, GPRO, RAILS ---- DX9 ---- |
07-08-2014, 03:59 PM | #5 (permalink) |
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oops, double post
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Tony Synergy 516, Gaui R-5 Speed (RIP), Cypher Vtol Jet (RIP), Spirit FBL, Hobbywing and Scorpion Tribunus ESC, Xnova motors. The girl in my DX9 tells them all what to do |
07-08-2014, 04:04 PM | #6 (permalink) | |
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Location: Smyrna, GA
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Quote:
I have no actual data on how well the new TT would hold up to 3000+ RPM head speeds or 3D smack beatings, but what I do know based on my testing shaft torture test is that the joint becomes the strongest part of the TT.
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Tony Synergy 516, Gaui R-5 Speed (RIP), Cypher Vtol Jet (RIP), Spirit FBL, Hobbywing and Scorpion Tribunus ESC, Xnova motors. The girl in my DX9 tells them all what to do Last edited by Xrayted; 07-08-2014 at 05:28 PM.. |
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07-09-2014, 01:31 PM | #7 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Well done.
Even the tail is holding nicely, cool Maybe an upgrade is needed for the ESC, the summer heat is back.
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XL Power 520(soon to become a 480), Warp 360 , Tarot 360Sport, Logo480 LowRpm , Logo 500 T500 AP |
07-09-2014, 03:40 PM | #8 (permalink) |
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Thread Starter
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Location: Smyrna, GA
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Thanks! Yes my Castle 120HV on my Goblin is struggling in the Summer heat and hits between 175-200F in flight depending on how hard I push it in speed runs. The Edge 75 on the stretched 500 is doing much better at only 117F, so the ESC is just fine
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Tony Synergy 516, Gaui R-5 Speed (RIP), Cypher Vtol Jet (RIP), Spirit FBL, Hobbywing and Scorpion Tribunus ESC, Xnova motors. The girl in my DX9 tells them all what to do Last edited by Xrayted; 07-10-2014 at 12:19 PM.. |
07-11-2014, 12:45 PM | #9 (permalink) |
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Well, I did some final testing today with the governor set to 2200, 2300, 2400. The heli started doing the "hula dance" at 2200. Im sure I could have worked to dial it out with my FBL unit gains, but flipping up to 2300 made it clear out. I guess the DFC and new dampers are just a little too rigid for 2200. I still have a non DFC head, so I could always switch it out later on if I decide to go lower.
The tail still held just fine in fast backward flight with slow piros at 2300, so Ive decided to stick with 2300, 2400 and 2500 as my set RPMs with 11T pinion. Flight time is 8 minutes and the electronics are barely above ambient, even after multiple flights, so Im very pleased with the outcome of the stretch
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Tony Synergy 516, Gaui R-5 Speed (RIP), Cypher Vtol Jet (RIP), Spirit FBL, Hobbywing and Scorpion Tribunus ESC, Xnova motors. The girl in my DX9 tells them all what to do |
07-11-2014, 04:00 PM | #10 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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Nice setup and great review. You need to get a video now!
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Team MSH USA - Cyclone Blades MSH Prôtos 380 Brain 2 MSH Prôtos Max V2 Brain |
07-11-2014, 05:38 PM | #11 (permalink) |
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Thread Starter
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Location: Smyrna, GA
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I could shoot a vid, but all I can do by myself is use my Go Pro head strap, and the GP makes the heli look so tiny and far away with that fisheye lense.
Maybe an excuse to change out the lense to a standard one I have been looking at lately
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Tony Synergy 516, Gaui R-5 Speed (RIP), Cypher Vtol Jet (RIP), Spirit FBL, Hobbywing and Scorpion Tribunus ESC, Xnova motors. The girl in my DX9 tells them all what to do |
07-13-2014, 12:20 AM | #12 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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Just change the settings, it's set to ultra wide from the factory. I use the medium setting between the 3 for all my videos and it's not bad. Unless you fly far away then you could try the narrow.
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Team MSH USA - Cyclone Blades MSH Prôtos 380 Brain 2 MSH Prôtos Max V2 Brain |
07-13-2014, 07:57 AM | #13 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
I have another regular camera that I can use as soon as I get a chance to fly with another buddy of mine so he can film.
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Tony Synergy 516, Gaui R-5 Speed (RIP), Cypher Vtol Jet (RIP), Spirit FBL, Hobbywing and Scorpion Tribunus ESC, Xnova motors. The girl in my DX9 tells them all what to do |
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07-15-2014, 03:43 AM | #14 (permalink) |
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What skids you are using ? Looks like solid 450Pro skids, but bigger
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Trex 800Pro DFC, Trex 500Pro DFC, Blade 180CFX |
07-15-2014, 06:54 AM | #15 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
I bought two pairs for less than $10 and liked the clean look they have, but they break just as easily as the stock skid struts do, and I'm on my second and last pair now it seems unless I can source them elsewhere.
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Tony Synergy 516, Gaui R-5 Speed (RIP), Cypher Vtol Jet (RIP), Spirit FBL, Hobbywing and Scorpion Tribunus ESC, Xnova motors. The girl in my DX9 tells them all what to do |
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07-15-2014, 09:17 AM | #16 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Nov 2012
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The skids for the Blade 500 are single piece like that. I'm not sure how the mounting holes line up though.
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<> Trex 600 ESP FBL, Trex 500 ESP FBL, Gaui X3, Oxy 3 <> <> Builds in progress: Logo 600SX, Synergy 516 <> *Spartan Vortex VX1e*
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07-15-2014, 09:22 AM | #17 (permalink) |
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You can find these skids on ebay, just search 500pro and you'll spot them.
Sent from my RM-885_eu_euro1_271 using Tapatalk
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Lee Griffiths |
07-15-2014, 10:42 AM | #18 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/500-Pro-Land...item19f0485457
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Tony Synergy 516, Gaui R-5 Speed (RIP), Cypher Vtol Jet (RIP), Spirit FBL, Hobbywing and Scorpion Tribunus ESC, Xnova motors. The girl in my DX9 tells them all what to do |
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07-15-2014, 10:49 AM | #19 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
BTW, the ones I have already have two sets of holes drilled in them, so it appears they are made to fit the Pros narrower frame and also the ESP wider frames.
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Tony Synergy 516, Gaui R-5 Speed (RIP), Cypher Vtol Jet (RIP), Spirit FBL, Hobbywing and Scorpion Tribunus ESC, Xnova motors. The girl in my DX9 tells them all what to do |
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08-05-2014, 10:06 PM | #20 (permalink) | ||
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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found this
http://www.elyshop.com/Lista-Prodott...B-blade_2.html but dont know about ordering it would take forever after crash then found this vid
cant wait for the 500L |
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