OS 105 HZ R needles

[CyprusFlyer]

Must admit that I have put my 105 back in its box for now, enjoying the YS91 Tareq.
A side note, had similar with the OS55 HZ-R, one Sat morning had 2 regulators stick open and sure the fuel filters were good. Put on a 91HZ needle seat and fuel inlet ring for muffler pressure, now its as consistent as electric with no distractions! Tells a story I think.

[Rodney Kirstine]

After I started over with my tuning, beginning with the idle mixture, mine is now running great. I was even able to tune it to the point where it was running a bit lean. This is with the standard regulator, carb, and needles.

[duckmansweb]

Originally Posted by dchekas

Very puzzling.

My 1.05HZ-R is just under 3/4 of a turn out on the main needle, running Rotor Rage 22.5%, and it's running like a beast.

Idle is at stock setting, mid needle a little under 1 turn out.

There's 3 other OS 1.05HZ-R's in my area, all with Hatori SB-22FH, running Rotor Rage 22.5%. All our needles are in the same ball park.

Another guy here has a OS55HZ-R in his 600N DFC. We're at 1.4 turns out on his high needle, and his is starting to come into the power band. Running rotor rage 30%.

At all the events I've been to the last 3 years, and all the engines I've helped tuned, I've never seen an OS engine behave like this. Very strange to say the least. Wish you were in the states, as I'd love to take a look at it in person.

what head shims are you running on the OS105 with the 22.5% fuel ?

[Thrillhouse]

I have an excessively rich running 55 hzr. Im am tryng to sort it. I can not get it to lean out on the main needle. Im going to try a few things in this thread and report results. I fly fairly hard 3d. Piroflips, funnels funneling tic tocs ect. Never had this problem before.

[Thrillhouse]

No luck today. Adjusted check valve length. Cleaned reg. I got it to lean out abit but main needle is at 2 clicks over half and medium needle is a 1/4 turn out.... is this right it just seems like is a fair way in is all. Motor is definitely not running to lean.

[Sky_]

Stock OS105HZ-R
Hatori 2123
Head Gasket - 0,4mm
Rapicon 30%
Idle Mixture Control Screw - Factory Setting
Medium Speed Needle Valve - 0,55 Open
High Speed Needle Valve - 0,65 Open

Gear Ratio - 8.21
RPM 1560
RPM 1760
RPM 1940

It's a Beast!

[chaveezy]

I realize this post is very old but I was wondering if anyone had some learned experience in the last 6 years. I had an unregulated 105 HZ that I could not get to run so I bought a new 105 HZR, thinking my problems would go away but it keeps dying when the head unloads. I am about 1 turn on high needle, 3/4 turn on mid and slightly lean (5 degrees) idle screw. Running IKON governor with an RPM sensor.

[ticedoff8]

I realize this post is very old but I was wondering if anyone had some learned experience in the last 6 years. I had an unregulated 105 HZ that I could not get to run so I bought a new 105 HZR, thinking my problems would go away but it keeps dying when the head unloads. I am about 1 turn on high needle, 3/4 turn on mid and slightly lean (5 degrees) idle screw. Running IKON governor with an RPM sensor.

Look for the common things between the two motors.
You really need to give us more to think about.
Fundamentally, the only mechanical difference between the 2 motors is the regulated carb (OS 61G), the backplate and 1-way check valve.
Have you used both in the same airframe? If yes, then the problem is in the airframe.

Shims (how many)?
Nitro content (how much)?
Oil content (how much)?
What glow plug (OS, Enya - something else)?
Are you flying in Death Valley or Pikes Peak?
What is the main gear ratio and what headspeed are you using?

Why did you think adjusting the idle needle would help? I've haven't needed to touched mine.
Only 1 turn out on the HS needle doesn't seem like it is enough.
And 3/4 on on the mid seems like it is too much.
How much smoke?
How hot is the backplate after the engine shuts down? Can you hold your finger on it for at least 3 seconds without burning yourself?

Do you have an iKON2? Or an iKON?
If you have an iKON2, are you logging the "Throttle Out %" (watching the servo throw).
Did you mechanically set up the throttle linkage so 50% Throttle Out % on the iKON2 equals 50% opening on the carb's barrel? And 0 equals full-closed in the carb?
Are you logging headspeed?
What is the Governor Engaged status when it dies?

How air tight is the tank?
Is there pressure in the tank when open the vent line after a flight?
How long is the tube between the backplate and the input side of the 1-way check valve (should be around 10cm)?

I could go on, but you need to provide some details.

[chaveezy]

Originally Posted by ticedoff8

Look for the common things between the two motors.
You really need to give us more to think about.
Fundamentally, the only mechanical difference between the 2 motors is the regulated carb (OS 61G), the backplate and 1-way check valve.
Have you used both in the same airframe? If yes, then the problem is in the airframe.

Yes, both were in the same Synergy N7. The model seems to be sound, backlash is appropriate and setup is good as far as I can see.

Originally Posted by ticedoff8

Shims (how many)?
Nitro content (how much)?
Oil content (how much)?
What glow plug (OS, Enya - something else)?

Yes, two .02 shims as recommended by the manual for 30% nitro. It is VP heli fuel with 23% oil. Using an OS #8 plug, tried two or three plugs, brand new.

Originally Posted by ticedoff8

Are you flying in Death Valley or Pikes Peak?
What is the main gear ratio and what headspeed are you using?

I am in Lexington, KY. I think we are close to sea level. Main gear is stock N7, I think 8.17:1

Originally Posted by ticedoff8

Why did you think adjusting the idle needle would help? I've haven't needed to touched mine.
Only 1 turn out on the HS needle doesn't seem like it is enough.
And 3/4 on on the mid seems like it is too much.

I was just trying to get it running by every means. The manual states 2.5 turns on high and 1.5 on the mid. Some say that translation is wrong so I tried the 2 half turns as a baseline. It was dying while idling, seemed to be flooding so I leaned it out a tad. The muffler (Pro Tune) was filling up with fuel it was so rich.

Originally Posted by ticedoff8

How much smoke?
How hot is the backplate after the engine shuts down? Can you hold your finger on it for at least 3 seconds without burning yourself?

Not too much smoke at idle now, that may be my problem. Lots of smoke while spooling up. When it unloads the smoke thins out a bit then the rpms speed up. It begins to smoke more as the idle slows a bit then it dies. Could be after I come back to mid stick after a short climb out.

Originally Posted by ticedoff8

Do you have an iKON2? Or an iKON?
If you have an iKON2, are you logging the "Throttle Out %" (watching the servo throw).

I have an IKON 1, so can't see the throttle out.

Originally Posted by ticedoff8

Did you mechanically set up the throttle linkage so 50% Throttle Out % on the iKON2 equals 50% opening on the carb's barrel? And 0 equals full-closed in the carb?

Yes I did set this up in the IKON software, I can recheck all this though.

Originally Posted by ticedoff8

Are you logging headspeed?
What is the Governor Engaged status when it dies?

I am not logging headspeed, I just am targeting 1600 in normal with a 0-25-30-30-30 curve so I have some control of the throttle. Then I go to idle up 1 which is targeting 1800. It reacts the same in both modes.

Originally Posted by ticedoff8

How air tight is the tank?
Is there pressure in the tank when open the vent line after a flight?
How long is the tube between the backplate and the input side of the 1-way check valve (should be around 10cm)?

Tank is sealed and does build good pressure. The line from the backplate is 10cm and checkvalve is the correct orientation.

Originally Posted by ticedoff8

I could go on, but you need to provide some details.

Wow, excellent reply! Thank you for asking all these questions, I hope I have answered them properly.

[ticedoff8]

The 61G is one of the easiest carbs there is to tune. I converted two of my YS 120SR-X to the 61G and it was much easier to tune than the YS carb.
The manual say the starting point should be 2 1/2 turns on the HS, leave the idle at the factory setting (slot is in-line with the carb's throat) and 1 turn on the trim (medium).
Then, lean the HS no more than 3 clicks at a time.
But, you have to get heat into the engine.
With an 8.17:1 gear ratio;
1600 RPM headspeed is 13,000 engine RPM.
1800 RPM headspeed is 14,700 engine RPM.
According to the OS Engines 105HZ-R manual, the best power is at 15,000 engine RPM.
You should be tuning this with at least a 1900 RPM headspeed.
If you try to tune the motor at less than 1900, you are not getting the carb's barrel open far enough nor getting enough heat into the motor to get it tuned.
And, with a log, you have to guess or have someone with you to use an optical tach on the head to see where the headspeed is at while you are loading the heli up.


Also, I adjust the HS only until I get close to (what feels like) the best / better setting for the HS. Then, to smooth the transition from idle to Speed 1, I will lead the mid 2 or 3 clicks. The mid has no real effect on the HS, but it will smooth the transition from idle. You can see that when is coughs and smokes as the governor ramps up.

After you get some consistency, you can lower the headspeed.

If you want to run a low headpeed long term, you should look for a new pinion that gives you at least a 9.0:1 main gear ratio. That way, you are running in its power band. Lower RPM can overheat the motor.

Also,

Using an OS #8 plug, tried two or three plugs, brand new.

Does that mean you burned out 2 or 3 plugs in the process of trying to tune the motor?
That could be a really bad thing - like metal in the crankcase.

I run my YS 120SR-X at 16,500 on my 2 Goblin 700BN.
It took 1 tank to get it close and it was pretty easy.


BTW: The MSH Electronics governor has a peculiarity. I'm not sure it is bug.
The governor's algorithm seems like it is tuned more for electric than it is for nitro. Its not a real bad thing, but it shows up with a nitro that is too rich.
I found it by logging the Throttle Out % while I was tuning my 96SR-X with the stock YS carb
The gov assumes that if the headspeed is dropping, it just needs to open the throttle and little more. Then it gets into a loop where the headspeed slowly dropping and it keeps open in the carb. Eventually, the throttle is 100% WFO and the headspeed is still dropping. Then the engine quits.
After this happened to me a few times, it became predicable and I could cause it at will. In the log, I saw exactly what was happening.

The "cure" was to get the engine tuned properly. Then the MSH gov could treat the nitro like an electric and it was okay.
You may want to try disabling the iKON's gov and run a conservative V-shaped throttle curve on Setup 1 with the gov disabled and the run a flat TC for Idle-Up 2 and switch to Setup 2 to get back on the gov.

[wjvail]

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