Co-Pilot II & T-Rex600

[Nate_Stansell]

I got my Co-Pilot II a couple of days ago.
Was going to install it tonight.
I was quite surprised to see that every wire was about 4 inches long, not long enough to go anywhere!

For example, the wires from the main sensor to the control unit are only 4 inches long so i cant mount it anywhere other than right next to the control unit, which of course means it doesn't have good visibility.
I received everything i saw in the picture of the unit on their website, but i dont understand how short 4 inch wires are supposed to go anywhere... What am i missing here, or did they really send me something that requires splicing in additional wire length to install?

[nightflyr]

If you are going to install the CPII on a 600 class or larger heli you'll need servo extension leads.

I needed 30" extensions to reach on my 700LE

[pril250]

I have mine installed on a T-Rex600n and the avionics computer is installed right at the front near the receiver, needed two extension leads for the main sensor, one for the vertical sensor and one for the IRNet receiver.

Its all good

[kidphc]

Pretty much the same here. I bought the filtered extensions, do not do that.

What a waste turns out I couldn't get the sensors to work with the filters. No big deal. Snip, solder, shrink wrap, tadda custom length extensions without the filters.

[Nate_Stansell]

huh.
So the helicopter ive spent 2k on so far, is now being held up because they sent me a product that wont work. I have to add at minimum 4 more possible points of failure, tape, goop and whatever else to make it work...
They have nothing on the web site to let people know additional parts will be needed.

So they sent me a product that wont work as is, nothing on their website that would have clued me into this, and they expect me cut and splice, tape, lengthen, and whatever the hell else i find out might be needed. Not to mention the additional tape and what not will look like crap.

Such a poor customer experience that could have been avoided in so many ways...
Anyone know if the Heli Command is the same way?
Id pay the extra 300 just for the cleaner setup but if its the same ill stick with this product even though im very dissatisfied right now...

I appreciate everyone cluing me in so quick though! I love this forum.

Also, nightflyr, your pics reminded me i need some braided wire wrap...
Where is the best place to get it?
I cant think of anywhere else local and no one has carried it that ive checked so it looks like ill have to order it online...

[Nate_Stansell]

About the braided wire, found it at HeliProz.com so i have an online source.
Are there any chains stores that carry it? Home Depot, Lowes, Radio Shack, Best Buy..?..
I cant find it on any of their websites and the person i called at Radio Shack had no clue what i was talking about. hehehe

[kidphc]

Think the manual does state that you might need extensions.

I've always shrink wrapped the extensions at the connector. I would recommend you do that if you are worried about points of failure.

[icerat4]

Dude relax ..All these systems need this and that ...Come on nothing just bolts up on helis and walla its a master piece...Take a deep breath and say i think i can i think i can .lol..Cp2 is a nice unit i have them on both my helis...Take your time and it will look ok on your heli...No worries ....Anyone that puts these systems on and takes there time comes out looking ok .For a add on....And after you dial in your heli ..And then set up the cp2 ..This look thing will be a thing in the past...TRUST ME...This cp2 is the cats ass as far as stable helis go ...So relax and enjoy

[Nate_Stansell]

hahaha, i hear ya, and im chill, but my money talks, and i dont like poor customer service.
Its one thing to get poor customer service when you order your .99 cent burger at BK or McD, its different when your ordering a $200 part for a $1500 helicopter...
Out of all the stuff that ive ordered to get me in the air, this is the ONLY item that ive been dissatisfied with in ANY way. Every thing else has been clear up front about what you'll need. So to run into this, the night before im thinking im ready for liftoff...

So, can anyone tell me if the Heli Command needs the same extensions?

To be honest, if it does then ill probably keep the Heli Command.
However as a business person myself, i value my customers and dont want them to use/keep my product because its "just as bad as the next product"

Again, i have no doubt that whatever i use, ill be able to make it work.
But if im going to have to wait because i have to order additional parts, then i might as well order something that will work better...
Granted it does cost more, so even with my dissatisfaction i may still keep the CP, but really, sometimes its more about the principle of things. Would it really be hard for them to put something somewhere on the site to warn people they may need even more parts?
Hell, work it into an additional product like an install kit for each helicopter or something.
And if they are that lazy/inattentive in regards to selling the product, what other corners have they cut in making the product? It all ties in together you know...

Anyway, thats why i ask about the Heli Command.
Does it need extensions to make it work also?

[pril250]

Originally Posted by icerat4

Dude relax ..All these systems need this and that ...Come on nothing just bolts up on helis and walla its a master piece...Take a deep breath and say i think i can i think i can .lol..Cp2 is a nice unit i have them on both my helis...Take your time and it will look ok on your heli...No worries ....Anyone that puts these systems on and takes there time comes out looking ok .For a add on....And after you dial in your heli ..And then set up the cp2 ..This look thing will be a thing in the past...TRUST ME...This cp2 is the cats ass as far as stable helis go ...So relax and enjoy

Listen Icerat.......I think you are the coolest guy on this forum

BTW Nate I think FMA offer customer service second to none, they are the only I've seen to actually participate in this forum and directly reply to posts and questions

[icerat4]

Originally Posted by pril250

Listen Icerat.......I think you are the coolest guy on this forum

BTW Nate I think FMA offer customer service second to none,

These statements are correct in every way Lol... serious hc customer service dosent hold a candle to fma As far as ive seen out here....Plus the ease of the cp2 is non comparision to hc...This is a fact ..IMO if your just planning on flying out side cp2 is the way and with the new update ..You get way more fly time due to the fact the update gives ya a better weather window to do so......I flew 14 packs yesterday and not a hickup at all...I am so happy i went the cp2 route..Howard and crew at fma are the best Imo and i am sure alot of others here. agree..Call them ask them or ask here ..Plenty of help with the cp2 ..On the other hand the hc isnt as user friendly and the customer support is very lacking from what ive seen out here...Just look at the post involving both units ..And you will see i am correct...Have a great day ...

[Nate_Stansell]

Well icerat, you talk a good talk. I hope they are paying you or something.

I understand what your saying, and i value the opinions on here.
I do think they did me a disservice by not providing the information in some way on the web site, or somewhere, but i guess i can email them about that, provide the feedback and let it go.

Im annoyed as thats been the only hiccup in this whole experience, but it wont get me down.
Certainly not.
Ill take your word for it that its a better product and ill start work on getting it installed soon.
Im not going to use extensions though, unless i have to...
Ill take the thing apart and my own and solder wires that are long enough.
I know it will void the warranty but id feel better about the connections then, and it will look much cleaner. And yes it will void the warranty if i do that. Im ok with that.

Thanks for the info.

[nightflyr]

To begin with all you ever needed to do is look at the photo of the CPII in order to know what you were purchasing.

Secondly if you viewed the setup videos you can plainly view the components,

As to Customer Service, If I were you I would browse thru some of the FMA CPII threads and see how far they go to help their customer's.

As to your $1,500.00,..would you like to try $4,500.00+ for one of mine and I never needed to wait on any parts due to research.
I knew exactly what I was purchasing and what was required to fit and install on my size class birds.

And if I remember correctly I believe Flame invested at least 1,500 on his RIGID 450

Wasn't that right IceRat?










Your issues are not with FMA or their products or their Customer Service/Support..
your issue was in not researching what it was you purchased

[Nate_Stansell]

Thanks for the beatdown nightflyr.
Im sorry my $1500 isnt up to par.
Thats a lot of money for me and ive had such a good experience with everything else that i was a bummer to run into this.

As far as research, i knew jack shit about these 2 weeks ago.
Ive spent more than 18 hours researching every aspect of helicopters so yes i missed this.
If i i was aware its possible to rely on pictures of products to know everything about a then why would there be descriptions?
I posted my entire order on the forum before i ordered it and asked if anyone could think of anything i was missing. No one said anything.
I dont fault anyone on this forum though. I was doing what i could to make an informed purchasing decision and i value all your help.

Ive read a ton of your posts nightflyr and that was a big part of the reason i went with that unit, was because you seem to be the bomb when it comes to them.
And in all the stuff i read, i never caught anything that mentioned said "hey, when you order this, youll need more wires too".
Nor did i find that anywhere else either.

Im sorry if my dissapointment rubs your wrong. My intent was to find a solution and express disssatisfaction in my experience in case anyone else might see it and then know.
Im sure its posted on here 200 other places. But with almost 200,000 threads, and almost 2 million posts, well lets just say its hard to find everything relevant to my exact situation.

If i offended you with my comments nightflyr im sorry. That was not my intent.
However, i am still disssatisfied with my overall expereince from FMA.

And for what its worth, yes i have emailed them, and not heard back yet either...
No i was not rude to them.
Here is my exact email:
"I ordered a Co-Pilot 2 recently...
Customer ID #######
The wires on the Co-Pilot 2 are way to short to get anywhere on my T-Rex 600.
I feel like im maybe missing something or this wasnt designed for a helicopter this large...
Can you help me out please?"

I have not heard back yet but im also aware they probably get hundreds of emails a day so im patiently waiting to see what they say.
They have an opportunity to fix this. And no i dont expect them to send me anything for free nor give me any form of refund.
But it would be nice to hear back and maybe get a "hey, sorry about that, we understand how that can be frustrating, we will see if we can maybe add something to the site to help out our future customers"

Honeslty, acknowledge my dissatisfaction as a customer and tell me youll try to resolve the problem for other customers and id be done with it.
Now if im ignored and i never hear back.
No doubt ill return it.

Anyway, thanks all for the info and help.
You have all been an excellent resource. My apologies if i came across as ungrateful.

[Trooper]

You were also enquiring about HC. The wires for the RC-Module to the Rx are very short, approx 5 cm, requires it to be mounted as close as possible to the Rx.
The main unit has a longer lead, about 28 cm.
You can buy an extension lead.
Hope this helps.

Ian

[n6nev]

Howard called me, set me email's, so I find the customer service A + and go to this and read the posts all about CP 2

http://www.rcgroups.com/fma-direct-623/

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=989701

[nightflyr]

Thanks for the beatdown nightflyr.
I do not beat down on anyone, I just stated facts as I always do and most here will attain to.
Im sorry my $1500 isnt up to par.
Most people on this forum understand the costs involved
Thats a lot of money for me and ive had such a good experience with everything else that i was a bummer to run into this.

As far as research, i knew jack shit about these 2 weeks ago.
Ive spent more than 18 hours researching every aspect of helicopters so yes i missed this.

2 weeks is a short time to attempt to come up to speed on any helicopter much less a 600

If i i was aware its possible to rely on pictures of products to know everything about a then why would there be descriptions?

That is why I questioned if you viewed the installation/setup video's

I posted my entire order on the forum before i ordered it and asked if anyone could think of anything i was missing. No one said anything.

I taking a very loose guess here and excuse me if I'm way off on this people...

I would venture a guess that most pilots here are flying 450 - 500 class birds.

I personally have not seen too many who install a CPII on a 600 or larger bird may be 1/2 dozen if I recall, so your qestion going unanswered was most likely due in fact that they didn't have the answers to give.....
And better to say nothing than to offer poor direction or advise

I dont fault anyone on this forum though. I was doing what i could to make an informed purchasing decision and i value all your help.

Ive read a ton of your posts nightflyr and that was a big part of the reason i went with that unit, was because you seem to be the bomb when it comes to them.
And in all the stuff i read, i never caught anything that mentioned said "hey, when you order this, youll need more wires too".
Nor did i find that anywhere else either.

If the was any question about what was needed for this install, anyone can PM me and ask a question, It is a bit tough to follow every thread, but I always answer any question that is put directly to me.

Im sorry if my dissapointment rubs your wrong. My intent was to find a solution and express disssatisfaction in my experience in case anyone else might see it and then know.
Im sure its posted on here 200 other places. But with almost 200,000 threads, and almost 2 million posts, well lets just say its hard to find everything relevant to my exact situation.

If i offended you with my comments nightflyr im sorry. That was not my intent.
However, i am still disssatisfied with my overall expereince from FMA.

And for what its worth, yes i have emailed them, and not heard back yet either...
No i was not rude to them.
Here is my exact email:
"I ordered a Co-Pilot 2 recently...
Customer ID #######
The wires on the Co-Pilot 2 are way to short to get anywhere on my T-Rex 600.
I feel like im maybe missing something or this wasnt designed for a helicopter this large...
Can you help me out please?"

I have not heard back yet but im also aware they probably get hundreds of emails a day so im patiently waiting to see what they say.
They have an opportunity to fix this. And no i dont expect them to send me anything for free nor give me any form of refund.
But it would be nice to hear back and maybe get a "hey, sorry about that, we understand how that can be frustrating, we will see if we can maybe add something to the site to help out our future customers"

A good reason you may not hear from them is that a good portion of FMA staff is @ the Toledo RC Expo along with alot of other Manufacturers/Companies.

Honeslty, acknowledge my dissatisfaction as a customer and tell me youll try to resolve the problem for other customers and id be done with it.
Now if im ignored and i never hear back.
No doubt ill return it.

Anyway, thanks all for the info and help.
You have all been an excellent resource. My apologies if i came across as ungrateful.

The solution is quite simple as others have stated including myself.

You really can not expect FMA or any other MFG, to design any system that will accommodate a 450 up to 1/4 scale, that is just not practical.

As you stated you knew very little 2 weeks ago, there are a ton of lessons to be learned..
Stock ESC issues, main shaft slop, 3rd bearing block mod, servo/link clearance issues, gear stripping the list goes on and on...and believe me when I say to you, MANY have voiced there complaints on these and other and guess what? folks are still buying the 600.......but experience is the best teacher and you'll learn what needs to be done and what to look for as you go

[Tim Marks]

Originally Posted by Nate_Stansell

Thanks for the beatdown nightflyr.
Im sorry my $1500 isnt up to par.
Thats a lot of money for me and ive had such a good experience with everything else that i was a bummer to run into this.

As far as research, i knew jack shit about these 2 weeks ago.
Ive spent more than 18 hours researching every aspect of helicopters so yes i missed this.
If i i was aware its possible to rely on pictures of products to know everything about a then why would there be descriptions?
I posted my entire order on the forum before i ordered it and asked if anyone could think of anything i was missing. No one said anything.
I dont fault anyone on this forum though. I was doing what i could to make an informed purchasing decision and i value all your help.

Ive read a ton of your posts nightflyr and that was a big part of the reason i went with that unit, was because you seem to be the bomb when it comes to them.
And in all the stuff i read, i never caught anything that mentioned said "hey, when you order this, youll need more wires too".
Nor did i find that anywhere else either.

Im sorry if my dissapointment rubs your wrong. My intent was to find a solution and express disssatisfaction in my experience in case anyone else might see it and then know.
Im sure its posted on here 200 other places. But with almost 200,000 threads, and almost 2 million posts, well lets just say its hard to find everything relevant to my exact situation.

If i offended you with my comments nightflyr im sorry. That was not my intent.
However, i am still disssatisfied with my overall expereince from FMA.

And for what its worth, yes i have emailed them, and not heard back yet either...
No i was not rude to them.
Here is my exact email:
"I ordered a Co-Pilot 2 recently...
Customer ID #######
The wires on the Co-Pilot 2 are way to short to get anywhere on my T-Rex 600.
I feel like im maybe missing something or this wasnt designed for a helicopter this large...
Can you help me out please?"

I have not heard back yet but im also aware they probably get hundreds of emails a day so im patiently waiting to see what they say.
They have an opportunity to fix this. And no i dont expect them to send me anything for free nor give me any form of refund.
But it would be nice to hear back and maybe get a "hey, sorry about that, we understand how that can be frustrating, we will see if we can maybe add something to the site to help out our future customers"

Honeslty, acknowledge my dissatisfaction as a customer and tell me youll try to resolve the problem for other customers and id be done with it.
Now if im ignored and i never hear back.
No doubt ill return it.

Anyway, thanks all for the info and help.
You have all been an excellent resource. My apologies if i came across as ungrateful.

Hi:

Sorry if no one got back to you about the email inquiry you sent. Sometimes emails get caught in the SPAM filter. Otherwise, if you sent this through normal channels and it did not get lost in delivery, Howard Matos should have ultimately received it. He and the other boys are in the throws of getting ready for the big Toledo trade show. Nevertheless, as others have stated, we monitor these threads routintely. I have added the following information to each of the CPII combos on our website under the heading "Outputs".

Outputs: Please be advised the CPII systems are designed to fit small helicopters without any additional components. For lager heli's and/or fixed wing aircraft, you may require standard aileron extensions for optimal placement of vertical and/or main sensors.

I hope this will suffice to meet your expectations of our customer service. Nevertheless, if you have other questions, you may contact Howard when he returns from the Toledo trade show. He will be back in the shop April 13, 2010.

Sincerely,


Tim Marks
President
FMA, Inc.

[icerat4]

Originally Posted by Nate_Stansell

Thanks for the beatdown nightflyr.
Im sorry my $1500 isnt up to par.
Thats a lot of money for me and ive had such a good experience with everything else that i was a bummer to run into this.

As far as research, i knew jack shit about these 2 weeks ago.
Ive spent more than 18 hours researching every aspect of helicopters so yes i missed this.
If i i was aware its possible to rely on pictures of products to know everything about a then why would there be descriptions?
I posted my entire order on the forum before i ordered it and asked if anyone could think of anything i was missing. No one said anything.
I dont fault anyone on this forum though. I was doing what i could to make an informed purchasing decision and i value all your help.

Ive read a ton of your posts nightflyr and that was a big part of the reason i went with that unit, was because you seem to be the bomb when it comes to them.
And in all the stuff i read, i never caught anything that mentioned said "hey, when you order this, youll need more wires too".
Nor did i find that anywhere else either.

Im sorry if my dissapointment rubs your wrong. My intent was to find a solution and express disssatisfaction in my experience in case anyone else might see it and then know.
Im sure its posted on here 200 other places. But with almost 200,000 threads, and almost 2 million posts, well lets just say its hard to find everything relevant to my exact situation.

If i offended you with my comments nightflyr im sorry. That was not my intent.
However, i am still disssatisfied with my overall expereince from FMA.

And for what its worth, yes i have emailed them, and not heard back yet either...
No i was not rude to them.
Here is my exact email:
"I ordered a Co-Pilot 2 recently...
Customer ID #######
The wires on the Co-Pilot 2 are way to short to get anywhere on my T-Rex 600.
I feel like im maybe missing something or this wasnt designed for a helicopter this large...
Can you help me out please?"

I have not heard back yet but im also aware they probably get hundreds of emails a day so im patiently waiting to see what they say.
They have an opportunity to fix this. And no i dont expect them to send me anything for free nor give me any form of refund.
But it would be nice to hear back and maybe get a "hey, sorry about that, we understand how that can be frustrating, we will see if we can maybe add something to the site to help out our future customers"

Honeslty, acknowledge my dissatisfaction as a customer and tell me youll try to resolve the problem for other customers and id be done with it.
Now if im ignored and i never hear back.
No doubt ill return it.

Anyway, thanks all for the info and help.
You have all been an excellent resource. My apologies if i came across as ungrateful.

Serious are you done with the drama..Please this is a easy going relaxing in the woods quite fourm section....Please keep the tone down it helps the end result...Other wise the natives get mad.. Please keep a mellow tone will hook ya up here with no issues..LOTS of good people here to set ya up right in the right system just keep cool ..Stay cool relax my man... It will hap pen

[icerat4]

Originally Posted by Tim Marks

Hi:

Sorry if no one got back to you about the email inquiry you sent. Sometimes emails get caught in the SPAM filter. Otherwise, if you sent this through normal channels and it did not get lost in delivery, Howard Matos should have ultimately received it. He and the other boys are in the throws of getting ready for the big Toledo trade show. Nevertheless, as others have stated, we monitor these threads routintely. I have added the following information to each of the CPII combos on our website under the heading "Outputs".

Outputs: Please be advised the CPII systems are designed to fit small helicopters without any additional components. For lager heli's and/or fixed wing aircraft, you may require standard aileron extensions for optimal placement of vertical and/or main sensors.

I hope this will suffice to meet your expectations of our customer service. Nevertheless, if you have other questions, you may contact Howard when he returns from the Toledo trade show. He will be back in the shop April 13, 2010.

Sincerely,


Tim Marks
President
FMA, Inc.

How the hell is that for service ..Unreal .. Told ya ..Listen to a Rat it may help ya out