Self Leveling just for beginners?

[Tukmol]

Hi! Are self leveling only usefull if you're learning to fly? I've read that most of you start to turn it off when you already know how to fly comfortably and just use it for bail out.

Any disadvantages if you turn on self leveling all the time even if you're already good at flying?

[pril250]

Depends on the style of flying. The 'self levelling' does interfere with the control and agility of the heli as it will attempt to level the swash after every cyclic input thus stopping any inertial motion or manoeuvre which will not suit 3D and acrobatics.

On the other hand if you are only hovering or flying AP/scale the system's downside will be minimal. Hope this explains things.

[Tukmol]

Thanks! That's what i wanna know. Now I know why they turn it off lol. Hmm it hovers on its own, not a good way to learn how to hover.

[sutty]

Actually I think it is a good way to learn to hover. Take my experience of learning to hover. I had to do it with the helicopter within inches of the ground, with training gear on, and every time I messed up, I had to set it down, rather quickly, and then think again about what I had done, and worry about taking off again, assuming I got it down without bending anything. How much better if you can just let go of the cyclic, and it will go back to level so you can just start to try again.

Now as it happens, I got a CPII long after I could fly. In fact I could do some okay 3D and I still got one. As you commented most use it when at this stage as a bail out only, which is what I do, however, I had to test it in all different modes before I had confidence in it, and knew what it was doing, and to get it set how I liked it. The net result was that I flew with it switched on a good number of times, and whilst I found it a little odd, it was not something I couldn't cope with, as I had my stick priority at maximum, meaning it gave me most of the control, as soon as the stick was away from centre. Not only that, because I was reasonably adventurous, I tried all of my 3D moves with it, and it worked okay. I could still feel it kind of pulling at me, but it wasn't that bad.

Anyway, I'm not saying CPII is the thing, and I don't know anything of the others, but they must be similar, and I think that avoiding having to keep landing, or avoiding having to keep repairing because you have crashed it, goes an awful long way in helping you to progress more quickly.

The problem I would have had, is that without all the pain of crashing and re-building, I would not have learned enough about CP helis in general to have been able to make use of such a system. I know for a fact that I could not have coped with setting it up until I could already fly, as my knowlege was lacking in too many ways.

Now, work with someone who can already fly, who can help you to do the set-up, then in my opinion a system like this can be invaluable. I did not have this option available to me, so the way I did it, slowly but surely was probably the right way for me, but had I been able to get someone to help me set it up properly then I'm certain I would have benefitted.

Cheers

Sutty

[pril250]

Stabilisation systems are a great benefit to the learning process and as posted allow you to stay in the air longer while learning. The problem is that the knowledge required to properly install and setup those systems in most cases exceeds what you have available at the novice stages of the hobby. Luckily forums like this help improve the odds to coping with the issues and challenges involved. Do not underestimate the invaluable contribution of those systems to the learning process and the preserving of your hardware not to mention the $$$.

[Tukmol]

Hmm since it can be switched off and fly like a normal heli.
There's no real disadavantage or bad about it just the added weight and expensive price? if its not expensive it could be standard like tail gyro?? Are there any settings in phoenix sim that act like cpII?

[sutty]

I don't know about Phoenix, since although I have it I have never looked for such a thing. However, a quick google search turned up this single post which seems to make a reasonable suggestion. You could always try it.

Cheers

Sutty

[pril250]

As far as I remember, in Phoenix if you make the heli FBL and go into the FBL settings there is a way to mimic to an extent the effect of stabilisation.

As far as the price of these things are concerned, it will always=money well spent compared to the hassle of obtaining replacement parts and the re-builds that ensue post incident.

CPII may seem expensive but it will also continue to work with many FBL systems and provide both stabilisation and a 'bail out'. A cheaper option @ around $70 is Flymentor based on a 3 axis gyro layout and also does a reasonable job but requires more skill to setup and is not as fast reacting as CPII thus less effective on the 'bail out' aspect.

Hope this helps.

[Tukmol]

Thanks guys for the help

This hobby is expensive, only 3mos and I already want to buy medium heli,BIG,SCALE and FPV tsk tsk. I already ordered 500 efl. might put cp2 to save my wallet lol.

[Ken Here]

Newbie pilot here, I have SL and would say it does not hover on it's own. An experienced pilot might have that impression but not me.

[TBur]

Originally Posted by Tukmol

Hi! Are self leveling only usefull if you're learning to fly? I've read that most of you start to turn it off when you already know how to fly comfortably and just use it for bail out.

Any disadvantages if you turn on self leveling all the time even if you're already good at flying?

Can only speak of the SK 720 - no idea why one would want it on all the time, makes it fly like a co axial.( why reinforce that behavior..)

[Tukmol]

Originally Posted by TBur

Can only speak of the SK 720 - no idea why one would want it on all the time, makes it fly like a co axial.( why reinforce that behavior..)

I didn't know that it can't do 3d or flips if its on. I thought it just level on its
Own when I dont touch the stick.

[TBur]

Originally Posted by Tukmol

I didn't know that it can't do 3d or flips if its on. I thought it just level on its
Own when I dont touch the stick.

I'm no expert on it, as it's a bailout for me, but as example if you want to move forward in SL ON MODE you must keep the stick pushed forward, certainly not the behavior of a Collective pitch heli. That's why my thinking is that flying with it on teaches your thumbs the wrong behavior.
Their are settings on the SK that can adjust how aggressive the self level is - its very aggressive for me as its a bail out option, I don't fly it in SL at all

[Sambuka]

Use the self level on to start and dial it down slowly as you become better, turn it off completely when you've done enough sim time and flying to hold a good hover yourself. then use it as a bailout to stop costly repairs. These bailout systems are just awesome for learning 3d later on knowing you can flick a switch when you've lost it. I had progressed to doing flips rolls and still had times when I lost orientation of my Heli for upto 5-6 seconds sometimes then finally saving it myself at the last moment. Know I have a good FBL bailout system that's not an issue. Don't fly with self level for too long try to use it as a learning process to get your fingers trained for real flight.

[ricoalonso]

All these concerns about the SL not allowing the pilot to do all the 3D moves and flying like a coaxial will be addressed by the CP2 Hard Deck option.

While learning, you fly your heli above 50 ft and you can do whatever and however you want. Only when the heli touches the 50 ft minimum height limit will the SL take over. I don't have one myself and only saw the video of test pilot but it looks impressive. I bought my CP2 in anticipation of the HD release.

In my opinion, it's just like flying the sim at the field without getting stuck indoor in front of a computer... a lot better

Edit: For CP2, you can actually do flips/loops and I'm sure rolls if you want. What I did is I increased stick authority to the max (150%). Also, you can use a variable knob or slider in your Tx to increase/decrease its sensitivity (just like a gain) in place of a switch to activate it.

[F-16 CHIEF]

Is 150 the max? I've got mine at 125 and it's docile. I was thinking it would be 200%.

[ricoalonso]

yes, as far as I can remember I have mine at 150% and it was the last max value I can set.

[Pcaola]

I am so glad this thread is up and running. It has answered so many questions and provided a few great opinions. Thanks SUTTY !!

I'm building a 450 CopterX with flybar (I think ) scaled into an EC-135 body. After seeing the size of this 450 I know I'm going 500 next. I have been reading and debating the flight stabilization thing for 2 weeks now because I know I want it. I've been flying CP helis fairly well for a few months. MCPX and 130X. I can hover, move and land. But I can't do a circuit or figure 8. I seem to lose it in a banked turn. The difference with those two helis is; I usually just pick it up, set it down, and start over. I can't imagine the down time, frustration, waiting for parts, etc for ONE bumpy 450 landing, but I think I'm going to find out

I was flying my bigger coax helis a little this week for fun and WOW.. Because they act totally different I thought the heli was being complicated....not my fingers. Going back and forth from Coaxial to CP is not for me LOL. Staying with my CP and I don't want a flight stabilization system to make my 450 fly like a coax. I DO want to learn to fly it CP but scale CP.

In constant reading everything says 3D or to help learn 3D with stability. I've been looking at flymentor, heli command, Skookum 720. The price range is BIG. I have no problem paying for what I need. But for SCALE flying, as a safe learning "co pilot". I'm having trouble figuring which one is best. A few guys LOVE their Skookum 720 but it says FBL. Should I just buy a FBL head before I do the build? A flybar doesn't bother me per say... Unless I bend it up in a crash I guess. A lot of the flight stabliziations say FBL. The CP II sounds good for me. Around 200$ ? And I can work the settings back gently as I gain confidence in those banked turns

I'm building my Copterx kit. So I know how it works, and why it works, and how Bobs videos will make it work well (with help from Gino's posts too ). I'm going to fly it without the flight stabilization first to do very basic moves so that i know the heli is running the way it should. Then I want to put in a flight stabilization system so I can start "flying around". But I don't think I want to put it in with the build because then I will have too many things that "could" be affecting the way the heli is flying.

If anyone has any tid bits of info, that I am in the right or wrong direction, please post or PM me. Im looking for a safety net - training tool for scale flying. No upside downs or rolls. It's just not what I want to do .

Thanks to everyone who has posted so much info and tips.

Paul

[Tukmol]

Lots of people here are waiting for msh brain. I think im gonna wait for helifreaks opinion on that before buying SL.
Can I use it as replacement for 3gx or its an addon like cp2? It has SL right?

[jolyboy]

Originally Posted by Pcaola

....I can hover, move and land. But I can't do a circuit or figure 8. I seem to lose it in a banked turn. The difference is with these is I usually just pick it up, set it down, and start over....

I'm in the same boat a you, only I started with a 450 clone. Just got my flymentor set up and running perfect, and this is the first time I had the confidence to "fly around". I could even to 1meter circles in front of me with no issues apart from adrenaline pumping!

I would recommend the flymentor, its perfect for guys like you and me. Just hold the stick forward, and let go when you want it to hover... simple!!


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