Protos Flybarless development thread

[Fergus]

Can anyone say if there are plans in the near future for a flybarless head for the Protos which does not require mods?

[Libelle]

@ping

Any news on the Mikado 8mm swashdriver?
I have my Protos coming in this week and V-Stabi is waiting to be setup

I think the only problem with the Mikado 8mm swashdriver is that the ball links on the swash are larger than the MSH balls! We will see the Mikado swashdriver is ordered too!

On my Logo 400 V-Stabi the space on the grips between the links is 60mm, what distance do you get with the T-Rex 500 links?

So long
Martin

[ping]

You have to change the ball links on the swashplate to these:
http://www.readyheli.com/MIK4231_Lin..._p/mik4231.htm

The distance from ball to ball on the head is about 50mm. I measured everything and the boosting from servo to grips was the correct ratio and everything was where it should be in the software.

Still only minimal flight testing, the high here in Indy tomorrow is 2 degrees...

[Libelle]

Thank you ping for the quick reply!

Whats the distance on your servoarms?

Hope I can setup my Protos upcomeing weekend, weather is also bad in Austria only (26°F) but we have a big storagebuilding at our company where I can do testflights!

May I have a lok at your V-Stabi setup file?

Thanks
Martin

[ping]

Stock servo arm lengths or up to 1mm in on the horn are the only options really available. Any closer and the frames rub at full collective.

I have to look for my V-bar file I think it was deleted when I upgraded my computer. I can download it off my Vbar unit however it will take me a few days. Their is almost no tweaking to it I haven't had a chance to get more then 10 or so test flights on my Vbar.

[Libelle]

@wholeam

You are using other balls on the swashplate to link the GAUI swashdriver, which balls have you used?

Have you used the original MSH rods or the ones from the GAUI extensions?

Getting my Protos in this week, so I am collecting all the parts to go flybarless!

I have ordered the MIKADO 8mm swashdriver, balls and 2mm screws!

That means with the Infinity CNC grips and the extensions I am ready to go; right?

Thanks
Martin

[ping]

If you use the Align standoffs you will need to modify the Infinity grips. You will need to re-tap the grips and grind the mounting surface flat.

[Libelle]

Hi,

my flybarless conversion is done!



- (5) Swashdriver (8mm) from Mikado [04168]
- (4, 8 ) Mikado Trex 500 VStabi Headupgrade [04229]
- (1, 2, 3) Align Main Rotor Linkage Ball TREX 500 [H50094]
- (1) 2x M2 nuts
- (2) 4x small M2 washer (Mini Titan spare part)
- (7) Infinity Hobby High Hardness Head Dampeners [06200208]

I am getting 14° pitch, and up to 10° cyclic pitch with V-Stabi connected!
No binding on maximum swash throws!

I am waiting on my new CC ICE ESC so it will take a few days more to get it up in the air! Will post feddback after maiden flight!

So long
Martin

[ping]

Looks good! The only thing I recommend from my testing are CNC grips to eliminate flex at the ball stand off.

[Libelle]

@ping

I have the CNC grips here, I will try to modify them this week!
All I have to do is tapping a M3 thread to fit the T-Rex balllinks, right?

Is it realy noticeable that the plastic grips are flexing? My skill is FFF with aerobatic maneuvers, no 3D!
I thought the plastic grips are a good predetermined breaking point on crashes!

[rcmarty]

looks good.

Is the swash driver the same width as the headblock ?
If one were to lower the headblock and attach the swashdriver arm to the headblock would the spacing still be correct ? ( or how wide is the mikado clamping block ? same width as the msh head at the bottom ?)

Is the pic with the pitch at about 0 degrees ? Just noted the mikado block is about level with the arms. I found on my 600n conversion i got binding at neg with cyclic. Ended up with the center block lower than level at 0 pitch.

The stock grips do seem strong to me. Is there any way of telling if there flexing under load ?

Martin

[Libelle]

Originally Posted by rcmarty

Is the swash driver the same width as the headblock ?

No, the swashdriver is wider!
Picture is at 0° Pitch, I have no binding in any direction!

[ping]

Hold ball link at the grip and twist the blades by hand and you'll see the flex I'm talking about. It was enough flex to make me concerned that it could cause oscillation as the V-bar tried a lagging pitch input.

I thought about tapping the head block to install the swash driver directly. I don't have the tools to accurately cut and drill the hardened main shaft. The mikado swash driver is the best option as you can replace all the parts in the head after a crash without having to re-machine anything.

[rcman]

Originally Posted by Libelle

Hi,

my flybarless conversion is done!



- (5) Swashdriver (8mm) from Mikado [04168]
- (4, 8 ) Mikado Trex 500 VStabi Headupgrade [04229]
- (1, 2, 3) Align Main Rotor Linkage Ball TREX 500 [H50094]
- (1) 2x M2 nuts
- (2) 4x small M2 washer (Mini Titan spare part)
- (7) Infinity Hobby High Hardness Head Dampeners [06200208]

I am getting 14° pitch, and up to 10° cyclic pitch with V-Stabi connected!
No binding on maximum swash throws!

I am waiting on my new CC ICE ESC so it will take a few days more to get it up in the air! Will post feddback after maiden flight!

So long
Martin

Nice setup!!

How did the servo arms turn out. Did you need to move the ball in?

David

[Melly]

AC-3X flybarless conversion.

1. make an extension for the linkage ball (10mm), from round brass 6mm, long 8-10 mm, M3x5,5 outside thread, M2x8 inside thread
2. make a new hub from aluminum 12x12 mm, inside hole 8 mm, two threads M2x8mm and two thread M3 for a M3 pin (at an angle of 66 degrees)
3. remove the two pins from the rotor head
4. tap an M3 thread in the blade grips (the last tap just 2 or 3 turns)
5. thread the brass extension (using a drop of CA)
6. thread the ball (loctite)
7. shorter the washout mixer arms (and insert a washer between the two bearing and a second washer between the new hub and the bearing)
8. the distance on the C rod is now 39,6 mm (measured as in the manual)
9. shorten the distance on the servo arms (from 16 mm to around 13 mm)

The distance between the center of the ball in the grip and the center of the main shaft is 25,5mm and distance between the center of the outer ball on the swash plate and the center of the main shaft is the same.

With all the default settings in AC-3X (swash servo travel 1000, pitch, aileron, elevator 80%), now I have 7 degrees on aileron and elevator and 11 degrees on pitch.

[Libelle]

Anyone using Mikado V-Stabi on the Protos?

If I go above 33 with the cyclic ring values I get binding with the servoarms and rods on the frame!

Cyclic ring values schould be between 60-80!!!!!

Swash is in canter!

Any solution????

Thanks
Martin

[ping]

Cyclic ring should decrease binding not increase it. Can you post your setup files. I had the same issue and used cyclic ring to soften the corners until nothing binded on the frames. Did you move the servo horn in at all on the servos? I kept the stock locations.

I was using V-Stabi on my flybarless protos, however I sold it and I'm awaiting the new Mini-V.

[Libelle]

Attached a picture and the setup of my Protos!

Played aroaund this evening and with 11° pitch and cyclic ring value at 50 I get no binding at full pitch + full roll with more pitch and higher cyclic ring value I get binding at the marked points!

Dimensions of swash rods like given in the manual!

[ping]

Yea same points bind on mine. Are you setting Cyclic and Pitch separate, as long as you can get 13 degrees pitch without touching the frame your good. Then turn the head 90 degrees and check cyclic you should again get at least 10 degrees. Everything else is mixed inside the Vbar and toned down by the cyclic ring so the corners don't touch.

Also I had to sit my swashplate higher then stock, not sure if that will help or not. I set mine so the anti-rotation pin is centered in the anti-rotation guide. I had to use a 3 sets of Protos head linkages (the rods that go from the grips down to the swash on the flybar version) as those rods are longer.

[vicrc]

I hope to remove my flybar one day.

It seems that you have use a ball extension on the blade grips for mods, so I am just wondering if the plastic is strong enough. Torque is a big factor having it further out as the ball was design closer to the base thread of the grip? Breaking at that location spells for carnage.