#%%@ the Tarot zyx.

[Himilou]

So despite the issues I'm having with the zyx on the 450 I thought I was golden with the Tarot on the Outrage. Did a test flight this morning, needed to add more cyclic to tail and collcetive to tail did that. Went for 2nd flight everything is solid then coming to land the bird just leans back about an inch off the ground.

Pow!

Guess what? I flip it over and start checking everything (radio still on engine on ) and there is the swash plate leaning all the way back and to the right! stick centered. Give the stick a giggle and nope its decided its new centered position is full rear elevator, full right aileron.

Turn it off and back on and no problem level swash again.

This **** &^%$.3.5 ffirmware and zyx has now cost me the price of a Vbar in parts....

Something is really wrong with that 3.5 update...

[Bob O]

Sorry to hear about what happened. But please don't bypass the language filter. Glad you didn't get hurt.

Sent from my phone

[Himilou]

Sorry, thats the emotional filter kicking in...

[Dr. M]

Hi Himilou,

sorry to hear about your crash, I hope you'll have it back running soon.

The swashplate jamming at one cyclic extreme is a known result of the ZYX taking a static discharge hit. It is not a fw 3.5 problem, but something that's been there from the begining.

Keep in mind that winter conditions (cold, dry air) are prone to cause static issues; so a helicopter that was flying fine this summer might suddenly show signs of ESD as temperatures and humidity drop.

Here are some resources relating to static:

Read this first>>>http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1175

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1599560
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=842121

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxMOwEU-_Z4[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfR0eNfaKP0[/ame]

[Himilou]

well dry air is not my problem. I live in Seattle on my boat right on Lake Washington and this was in my parking lot.
Plus this is my outrage, it torque tube drive and the zyx sits all the way at the front on this setup so the static has to make it past the engine and the battey... ( sneaky static )
Plus this condition remained after the heli was on the ground, upside down so it had good contact. Swash did not relevel itself until I powered off and on again.

Plus I never had this issue with 3.01

[shreddedpaper]

Interesting that's happening with v3.5, both of mine are old versions, not sure of the version but neither have ever had the firmware upgraded.

I spent a few more bucks today on a few RF chokes, different sizes and a ceramic thingy. If that doesn't solve the same problems, I too will be done with the ZYX. I'm not flying anything as nice as an Outrage, but after a few crashes, that shouldn't have happened, it DOES get pretty costly, not to mention the down time.

The real bummer is doing bench tests, having good results then crashing on the 2nd or 3rd flight due to a fidgety swash.

[Himilou]

your telling me, The Outrage hasn't even broken in the motor yet, less than 10 lights ...

[Dr. M]

Originally Posted by Himilou

well dry air is not my problem. I live in Seattle on my boat right on Lake Washington and this was in my parking lot.
Plus this is my outrage, it torque tube drive and the zyx sits all the way at the front on this setup so the static has to make it past the engine and the battey... ( sneaky static )
Plus this condition remained after the heli was on the ground, upside down so it had good contact. Swash did not relevel itself until I powered off and on again.

Plus I never had this issue with 3.01

Again, sorry about your crash, but please consider a few points:

- a ZYX hit by static will jam the swashplate to one extreme and remain blocked that way until the power is cycled. resetting the gyro with the gain switch will not correct the issue. This is a typical manifestation of ESD for the ZYX gyros and I've experienced it first hand on my Protos.

- static is created by all moving parts particularly tail blades, but also main gear (see videos above). The fact you have a TT tail does not mean you're safe from ESD

- I live in the Seattle area as well, and the winter air can get pretty dry even with all the rain: today 64% humidity at 50°F (dew point around 39°F); this is equivalent to less than 10%RH at 70°F, and the air inside and around the heli can become pretty warm.

- static discharge need not happen directly against the gyro body. You can get an ESD between the tail boom and tail servo wires, for example, which would instantly propagate thru your wiring to all electronic components on the aircraft, including Rx and gyro.

I'm 99% sure you got zapped by static and that's what caused your flipover and swashplate getting stuck with extreme deflection.

Everyone reading this, keep in mind the ZYX is extremely sensitive to ESD, much more so than any other gyro I've ever heard of. Take extra precautions to prevent ESD on your heli when flying a ZYX gyro (or any of the other labels using the same electronics: ZYX-s, CX 3x1000, ALZRC 3GYS), particularly in cold, dry climates.

[Shogun71]

I have a few more tests. The 250 pro is barely flyable.

If things don't work out another controller is going on.

There definitely seems to be something up with firmware 3.5. I wish I had never updated....

If I had understood some of the gains better I would not have changed.

[Himilou]

well if its that sensitive another fbl makes sense, Im not going to ground myself till its 100% relative humidity to try and fly, radio won't like 100% anyway....

[Himilou]

Rather than static I think it was another case of this
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=462349

[Himilou]

as a matter of coincidence that was actually the second flight (after upgrade ) on the Outrage zyx, it was the second flight (after upgrade ) on the tarot when the servos did the same thing..

I hate coincidences

[shreddedpaper]

Dr. M, as far as precautions, grounding and all that, what else can be done to shield the zyx?
Is the static following the servo lead wires into the case or is the case itself being zapped regardless of servo leads?

Can something be wrapped (?) around the case?

Lead shielding? Glass? Tin foil hat Looking for ideas. I like the way it performs and have two of the things, so if it can be solved that would be great. It does seem like there is more of this happening across the forum, I don't think the firmware upgrade some have done had anything to do with it, more coincidence imho. Mine started acting up after a motor swap. Flew great, aside from a worn motor, before the change.

[Dr. M]

Well, considering Himilou has been having multiple seemingly unrelated issues with at least two of these gyros, I'm suspecting the problems may be related to a common cause...

As far as shielding the zyx from ESD, I'm not sure that's possible. The best you can do is ensure the entire chassis is at the same electric potential. Use a multimeter and as many connecting wires as necessary such that all parts of the airframe show electrical continuity with the motor stator or the negative battery wire from the ESC.

Otherwise, there are hundreds, if not thousands of zyx users and I follow all the related forums here and on RCG. These sorts of problems are exceedingly rare and most often caused by setup or equipment issues unrelated to the zyx.

[shreddedpaper]

Thanks Dr. M for the response.
I have the same continuity value at all points, tail, negative batt lead, motor shaft, motor can. I have continuity with resistance at the signal and positive pin on the rx as well.

Apologies to Himilou for butting into your thread, going back and forth between the two I inadvertently posted in the wrong thread.

[Himilou]

Originally Posted by Dr. M

Well, considering Himilou has been having multiple seemingly unrelated issues with at least two of these gyros, I'm suspecting the problems may be related to a common cause...

As far as shielding the zyx from ESD, I'm not sure that's possible. The best you can do is ensure the entire chassis is at the same electric potential. Use a multimeter and as many connecting wires as necessary such that all parts of the airframe show electrical continuity with the motor stator or the negative battery wire from the ESC.

Otherwise, there are hundreds, if not thousands of zyx users and I follow all the related forums here and on RCG. These sorts of problems are exceedingly rare and most often caused by setup or equipment issues unrelated to the zyx.

Yes but what is that? I have the same symptoms as two or more people here and we all use dissimilar equipment. So either we all suck at setting up and flying or we all use zyx...

Now Im not much of a pilot but I got the tail in thing in my parking lot down...

[Epoweredrc]

I had the same thing happen to my trex 450, i have never had it happen on my b450,.same unit on trex and servos went to right i had to hold left aileron to land gotit landed safe but washard to fly.
I then put this zyx-s bk on my b450 and no issues.

I got a zyx non s and put on trex and on 3rd flight i was hovering the tail started wagging bad and all suden the heli went leaning to left had to hhold right to get on ground bothtimes it stayed in the lean way until unplugged and plug bk in

Static maybe im not sure how to fix it dr. M posted a pic but not sure what i was looking at
I watched the guys video where did he have that wire going?
I like to add my trex has a cf boom and a aluminum tail case it has issue the blade 400 has cf boom but plastic tail case

Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Tapatalk 2

[AKPhill]

Just wondering if anyone has tried to ground the zyx case to the motor mount.
And the boom mount to the motor mount also

[shreddedpaper]

Originally Posted by AKPhill

Just wondering if anyone has tried to ground the zyx case to the motor mount.
And the boom mount to the motor mount also

Yep.
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...=463801&page=2
Post # 11.

[Epoweredrc]

Originally Posted by AKPhill

Just wondering if anyone has tried to ground the zyx case to the motor mount.
And the boom mount to the motor mount also

Can someone explain xgrounding for dummies? Me and my dad dont get how you ground a plastic heli? I mean the tail case is aluminum on my trx but thegear the belt runs on is plastic the boom is cf on it. There nothing to really ground to what kinda wire do you use

Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Tapatalk 2