Help troubleshooting / understading the log

[PauloG]

All,



One of buddies crashed his Goblin 700 (Re-kit it was ugly), and he swears the gobbler just lost power mid flight.

Upon Castle160HV log inspection I see some strange drops in power consumption and RPM as well (Last 2 flights).


The heli was brand new… 7 flights total. :-(


I don't have lots of experience reading these logs but I got to the conclusion something is wrong. Maybe a soldering joint?


I would like to hear from you.


Below is the link to the Castle log:

http://jmp.sh/Mj3dqRE



Thanks!!!

[PauloG]

Help anyone?

[Rsams]

I am afraid the charts are very hard to understand. I personally like the graph picture. If I am reading it right it looks to me like the ripple is extremely high but I cant say for sure. If you can get us a graph chart it would be easier to read.

[Xrayted]

Just change the original log file extension to .txt so HF will allow the file upload, then it can be changed back to the proper .CSV Castle file extension and opened using the castle software. Nothing useful can be easily determined from that spreadsheet file format

[Bob O]

Or while looking at the log, grab a screen shot and upload it as a pic. Lots easier IMO.

[Skidpad]

Originally Posted by Bob O

Or while looking at the log, grab a screen shot and upload it as a pic. Lots easier IMO.

Yep, and if using Win7, it has a built-in tool called "Snipping tool" that makes cutting the image from your screen and saving/pasting it far easier than previous versions of Windows.

[PauloG]

Here are the snippets from the log

Look at the gap on data reading .... there is clear a gap in the last 2 flights.

[LaDon]

Well it looks to me like the average voltage looks good but all the sudden it dropped. With 49 volts tops and 45 average I don't see where the low can be 35 without something wrong. That figures out to be less than 3 volts per cell. I am thinking that a battery might have failed in one cell. I might be wrong on that and I imagine that the batteries was destroyed in the crash. Either that or a solder joint let go. What kind of connectors was you using?

[RudeRebel]

Originally Posted by Gladiator

All,



One of buddies crashed his Goblin 700 (Re-kit it was ugly), and he swears the gobbler just lost power mid flight.

Upon Castle160HV log inspection I see some strange drops in power consumption and RPM as well (Last 2 flights).


The heli was brand new… 7 flights total. :-(


I don't have lots of experience reading these logs but I got to the conclusion something is wrong. Maybe a soldering joint?


I would like to hear from you.


Below is the link to the Castle log:

http://jmp.sh/Mj3dqRE



Thanks!!!

I see that your friend changed from IU2 to IU1, either just before, or at the point of crashing, and that the battery was disconnected from the ESC upon impact of the crash, not before the crash. It does look like he was going into a maneuver just before the crash which may have stalled the heli as the headspeed does seem to be dropping just prior to the crash. this kind of HS drop could have easily seemed like a loss in power and caused the heli to lose altitude.

If he was using the build in governor, the governor gain setting was pretty low at 6 (normally governor gain low is 15).

At the point of the crash, he had only consumed 1663mah of his 12S battery and that the voltage at the point of crash would suggest 3.875V per cell. So after 5 mins of actual flying time on that battery, it should have still been ok.

p.s. I was able to open your original attached log in my Data log viewer.

[LaDon]

Well if you can view it in the data program you can prolly see more than the pic shows. What I was looking at was the voltage min that is at the bottom left of the screen. I did open it up in the data viewer. I wish that I would have tried that earlier. It does look like he switched it from iud2 to idle 1 but at the same time the voltage drops straight down to 0. Can I ask how you are powering your electronics to operate the radio? Also what radio setup are you using? Unfortunately it is all kind of a guess to a point without seeing what there is left. The gain may be low but I run ours down low to and it don't hurt it none. I don't believe it was a brown out either as the power dropped right at the end. This is my analysis from what I see. At 476 sec it hit max headspeed. At 478.4 sec it tried to power up as headspeed was dropping and it did slow the drop just a little bit. At 480.9 sec the voltage in everything dropped to 0 and so did the power out. At 481.7 sec the headspeed is 0. I am like RudeRebel here and it appears to me that the heli had battery power after being able to look at it on the data link. At 480.9 sec the headspeed was still at 1800 rpm and at 481.7 sec it was 0. That would tell me that the heli was still flying under power till 480.9 sec when the heli started to hit the ground and at 8 tenths of a sec later it is at 0. To lose headspeed that fast it had to be in the ground. The capacitors in the castle will power it for just a few tenths of a sec after loss of power to the esc so I think that is why we still logged for about 8 tenths of a sec. The 2 blank spots just could be from the logging getting interrupted or maybe the logger was full and then found a little space I don't know. I hate to say it but from what I see I don't see where anything happened that would have caused a crash that pertains to the castle having a problem. Brownout? Maybe but I don't know if all that could have happened that fast as it appears like he had power till it hit the ground. After looking at it on the data viewer put it this way I think something else happened. If it is a rekit that would tell me he was up fairly high and then everything got lost and it hit the ground hard? If so 8 tenths of a sec is a short time to lose power and hit that fast.

[PauloG]

Originally Posted by RudeRebel

I see that your friend changed from IU2 to IU1, either just before, or at the point of crashing, and that the battery was disconnected from the ESC upon impact of the crash, not before the crash.

That could be, I did not ask him if

Originally Posted by RudeRebel

It does look like he was going into a maneuver just before the crash which may have stalled the heli as the headspeed does seem to be dropping just prior to the crash. this kind of HS drop could have easily seemed like a loss in power and caused the heli to lose altitude.

If he was using the build in governor, the governor gain setting was pretty low at 6 (normally governor gain low is 15).

Yeap, He was actually on a inverted loop. And head speed was set to low around 1700RPM-1800RPM.

Originally Posted by RudeRebel

At the point of the crash, he had only consumed 1663mah of his 12S battery and that the voltage at the point of crash would suggest 3.875V per cell. So after 5 mins of actual flying time on that battery, it should have still been ok.

p.s. I was able to open your original attached log in my Data log viewer.

Yeah, that is what I thought you guys would do with the file but when I saw the replies I thought I was wrong Then I saw I was right... should have added a note (You can open teh file directly on the LogViewer).

Originally Posted by LaDon

Well if you can view it in the data program you can prolly see more than the pic shows. What I was looking at was the voltage min that is at the bottom left of the screen. I did open it up in the data viewer. I wish that I would have tried that earlier. It does look like he switched it from iud2 to idle 1 but at the same time the voltage drops straight down to 0. Can I ask how you are powering your electronics to operate the radio? Also what radio setup are you using?

Electronics are powered via 2S Lipo (Brand new). Radio is a DX8, with 30, 70 and 100 for N,IU1 and IU2 curves.

Originally Posted by LaDon

Unfortunately it is all kind of a guess to a point without seeing what there is left. The gain may be low but I run ours down low to and it don't hurt it none. I don't believe it was a brown out either as the power dropped right at the end. This is my analysis from what I see. At 476 sec it hit max headspeed. At 478.4 sec it tried to power up as headspeed was dropping and it did slow the drop just a little bit. At 480.9 sec the voltage in everything dropped to 0 and so did the power out. At 481.7 sec the headspeed is 0. I am like RudeRebel here and it appears to me that the heli had battery power after being able to look at it on the data link. At 480.9 sec the headspeed was still at 1800 rpm and at 481.7 sec it was 0. That would tell me that the heli was still flying under power till 480.9 sec when the heli started to hit the ground and at 8 tenths of a sec later it is at 0. To lose headspeed that fast it had to be in the ground.
The capacitors in the castle will power it for just a few tenths of a sec after loss of power to the esc so I think that is why we still logged for about 8 tenths of a sec. The 2 blank spots just could be from the logging getting interrupted or maybe the logger was full and then found a little space I don't know. I hate to say it but from what I see I don't see where anything happened that would have caused a crash that pertains to the castle having a problem. Brownout? Maybe but I don't know if all that could have happened that fast as it appears like he had power till it hit the ground. After looking at it on the data viewer put it this way I think something else happened. If it is a rekit that would tell me he was up fairly high and then everything got lost and it hit the ground hard? If so 8 tenths of a sec is a short time to lose power and hit that fast.

Thanks LaDon, but how about that big gap in the middle of the flight where you see pretty much no data being logged? I am from IT, I am used to look at log files, and this one is puzzleing me. His 2 last flight show a pattern where in the middle of the flight data is lost.

Let me call him to see what is going on and see if he found anything related to a cold solder.

Thanks guys for the brainstorming replies. Much appreciated.

[PauloG]

Quick update... Nothing on the solder... And the battery was not disconnected during flight. He disconnected it once he got to the crash site.

One extra detail here, and I will say "we" because I helped him build it... We never disconnected the red wire coming from the ESC into the ikon.

[LaDon]

I don't think you need to on the edge 160. They don't have a bec in them. I have not unhooked mine at all either. I am not sure why it quit logging but I would guess that is all that happened there is that for some reason it just quit logging. Obviously the heli was still under power then and still flying so I don't think it did anything but not log. It lasted too long for something to be wrong or it would have crashed a lot earlier if that was the case. It cant fly not under power for approx. a minute.

[RudeRebel]

Originally Posted by Gladiator

Electronics are powered via 2S Lipo (Brand new). Radio is a DX8, with 30, 70 and 100 for N,IU1 and IU2 curves.



Thanks LaDon, but how about that big gap in the middle of the flight where you see pretty much no data being logged? I am from IT, I am used to look at log files, and this one is puzzleing me. His 2 last flight show a pattern where in the middle of the flight data is lost.

Let me call him to see what is going on and see if he found anything related to a cold solder.

Thanks guys for the brainstorming replies. Much appreciated.

Ok, so the ESC definitely lost connection from the main battery long before your friend disconnected it. The ESC would have kept logging until he disconnected it otherwise. If you zoom in the last 10 seconds, you can clearly see that the moment he switched from IU2 to IU1 at 479 seconds, the motor very quickly lost power, while battery was still connected as the voltage was still high. The voltage did no drop until after impact which would have been somewhere between 480 and 481 sec. He has the logging set to 1 hz so it only takes a snapshot of the data once every second. The battery disconnected basically right after impact. He definitely did not lose connection to the radio as IU1 was maintained right until battery disconnected, otherwise the Throttle In (black line) would have dropped out

That gap in the middle of flight is because he landed the heli in the middle of the flight. As long as the battery is plugged in. Basically, after he plugged in the main battery, he did not spool up until about a minute in. He flew for 2 mins, then landed and put on the throttle hold. He stayed on the ground for 3 mins, turned off throttle hold, then started up again, flying for about 1 min 40 sec before crashing.

Anyway, my best guess is that he was coming out of a high load maneuver stalled and crashed. his motor was stopped drawing current and power 2 seconds before he crashed. The main battery disconnected immediately upon crashand the ESC logged one more second after that. How are his connections from the ESC to the motor? It is possible that the motor died or disconnected resulting in the crash.

p.s. the 160 does not have internal BEC so the red wire does not need to be disconnected.