Hyperion EOS 0720i Super DUO3 vs TP820CD

[cshutchinson]

I have been considering selling my Hyperion charger and moving over to the TP820CD. My motivation is for the apparent ability of the TP820CD to charge faster, even with a lower stated wattage rating. I use Meanwell 24V 1000W power supplies.

From my searching here on the forum, it appears many people have problems with the screen on the TP820CD.

Would this be a foolish move, or is my best bet just to try the new charger? I am very pleased with my TP batteries and feel inclined to try their chargers too. I like the look of the TP820CD screen a little better, and figure TP knows how to charge their batteries as good as anyone.

Your thoughts? Thanks.

[MaSt0RaS]

go with the PL8

[3D Dave]

+1

Or, I'd get the PL8 but keep the Super Duo. I have both and there are things that each does better than the other.

Originally Posted by MaSt0RaS

go with the PL8

[flyfishsick]

i have a TP820CD and love it!!! never had a problem with the screen or anything with the charger? if there was a problem TP has one of the best warranty and service out there. look what they do for there battery customers

[aralan]

I've had my TP820CD do some strange stuff, like going in to CV mode early causing the current to rise dramatically above the programmed charge rate. TP replaced the charger for me, no hassles at all. I've also been using the SuperDUO since IRCHA. At this point I feel like I could practically write a book about the pros and cons of all of the high power chargers on the market, with the exception of the PL8 which I haven't had the pleasure of trying yet.

As far as charge speed goes, I think the TP820CD feels faster, but I have yet to do a head to head comparison. I'll have to try charging two packs to storage level on the TP820CD (so they have the same starting voltage) and then charging one on the TP and the other on the Hyperion, both at 10 or 15A, to do a comparison.

In short, here are a few other things to consider.

TP820CD pros
- Fast
- Small form factor, quite a bit more compact than the SuperDuo
- Easy to use charge screen
- Awesome balance boards, handle TP and JST-XH balance connectors on a single board
- Memory function makes it easy to access commonly used charge settings
- Good warranty

TP820CD cons
- Requires higher than 24V input to reach peak output (I think it needs 27V). This means on a 6S pack, instead of getting the 15.8A you may expect, you may see more like 14.5A
- Screen is polarized -- at the wrong angle! If you wear polarized sunglasses, you'll have to look at the charger turned 90 degrees, you won't be able to see the screen straight on at all
- Some quirky behaviors
- No charge software (if you care)
- Not very thorough balancing... this is part of what makes it fast. It would be nice if TP let you decide how accurate you want the balancing to be. Stops when cells are within 0.03V. You have to ask yourself though if it's really critical to get more accurate than that.
- Doesn't have a cutoff for pack voltage while charging, only monitors balance taps. Ask me how I found out, it wasn't pretty. I'm not sure how the other chargers handle this.
- Does not display input current, but does let you configure a maximum
- My impression is that the software needs some further refinement


SuperDUO pros
- Sync mode makes it easy to charge a split flight pack (i.e. 2x6S for 700E). Set up one channel, hit start, and the second channel inherits all of the settings.
- Highest output on a dual port charger
- Only needs 24V to make peak output
- Separate screens for the two channels
- Some more advanced functions (like balance only mode)
- Memory function makes it easy to access commonly used charge settings
- Available PC software

SuperDUO cons
- Pauses the charge once every minute for 3 seconds, then returns to full output very quickly. Unless you run a bigger than necessary power supply, this can cause your power supply to shut down. Also if you run on a generator, this can cause the charger to reset if you run very high output with features like "Eco Throttle" on the Honda EU2000i active.
- I don't much care for the display layout. The default charge screen doesn't show mAh, you have to press a button to access that screen.
- It's huge! Quite a bit wider, and also taller than the TP820CD
- Takes extra button presses to start charging.
- Separate balance boards for everything, doesn't come with Thunder Power balance boards. Extra stuff to carry. I'm strongly considering rewiring a set of TP820CD balance boards to work with my SuperDuo.
- Does not display input current (if it does I surely can not find it)
- Storage charge program charges to a higher voltage than I think it should. (I prefer 3.85V which is what TP820CD and iCharger do)
- Problems with charging with USB connected. Should have opto isolated the USB port.

iCharger 3010b (x2 for dual port charging)
- Very high output on a single port (30A/1000W)
- Easy to navigate menus
- User configurable balance rate
- Most flexible input voltage of any of these chargers (I think it's 9V-38V, while the other two are limited to 28 and 29V respectively, if I remember correctly). Want to run two iCharger 15V power supplies in series to power it? No problem.
- Very compact
- Lots of customizable settings, i.e. low voltage cutoff for power supply, max input current
- Displays input voltage and current
- Regenerative discharge can be used to discharge packs very quickly (I think Hyperion has this as well)

iCharger 3010b cons
- Only a single port, need to buy two, or parallel charge, if you want to charge more than one battery at a time. This would be more costly than either of the other two options.
- Quality of some components may not be the best. Buttons have to be pressed a little harder sometimes to make them work. The wires that connect the balance board to the charger tend to break off. After replacing several individual wires I finally rewired mine with more flexible silicone covered wires from epbuddy.com. Had to make my own cables though.
- No factory support in the US, but ProgressiveRC and EP Buddy are great to work with
- No factory charge control software, but there is some third party software available for monitoring

So there it is, just what I can think of off the top of my head. If I had to pick amongst the 3 right now, I would probably go with two of the iChargers. The footprint would be roughly the same as a single Hyperion SuperDUO, if not a little bit more compact, and the charge output would be higher. Wider input voltage range means I could get away with running on 36V input (3 12V power supplies in series).

So there you have it, my thoughts on all 3 chargers after living with them for a good amount of time.

[alexf1852]

The issue with the TP820CD over amping is fixed the latest beta firmware 3.9. I experienced the issue a LOT but I think that making sure your balance connectors are pushed in all the way into the balance board makes a significant difference. I used a jeweler's screw driver to push the metal connectors further in.

I do like the fact that the TP820CD doesn't waste time balancing to 0.01V or less. Balancing to 0.03V is fine. After your lipo is discharged the imbalance is in cell voltages is due to how well the cells in a pack are matched. And I find that my 6S Gens Ace packs are at 0.01V or less (mostly 0.005V or less) out of perfect balance. So TP was wise in this regard.

[cshutchinson]

Originally Posted by aralan

I've had my TP820CD do some strange stuff, like going in to CV mode early causing the current to rise dramatically above the programmed charge rate. TP replaced the charger for me, no hassles at all. I've also been using the SuperDUO since IRCHA. At this point I feel like I could practically write a book about the pros and cons of all of the high power chargers on the market, with the exception of the PL8 which I haven't had the pleasure of trying yet.

As far as charge speed goes, I think the TP820CD feels faster, but I have yet to do a head to head comparison. I'll have to try charging two packs to storage level on the TP820CD (so they have the same starting voltage) and then charging one on the TP and the other on the Hyperion, both at 10 or 15A, to do a comparison.

In short, here are a few other things to consider.

TP820CD pros
- Fast
- Small form factor, quite a bit more compact than the SuperDuo
- Easy to use charge screen
- Awesome balance boards, handle TP and JST-XH balance connectors on a single board
- Memory function makes it easy to access commonly used charge settings
- Good warranty

TP820CD cons
- Requires higher than 24V input to reach peak output (I think it needs 27V). This means on a 6S pack, instead of getting the 15.8A you may expect, you may see more like 14.5A
- Screen is polarized -- at the wrong angle! If you wear polarized sunglasses, you'll have to look at the charger turned 90 degrees, you won't be able to see the screen straight on at all
- Some quirky behaviors
- No charge software (if you care)
- Not very thorough balancing... this is part of what makes it fast. It would be nice if TP let you decide how accurate you want the balancing to be. Stops when cells are within 0.03V. You have to ask yourself though if it's really critical to get more accurate than that.
- Doesn't have a cutoff for pack voltage while charging, only monitors balance taps. Ask me how I found out, it wasn't pretty. I'm not sure how the other chargers handle this.
- Does not display input current, but does let you configure a maximum
- My impression is that the software needs some further refinement


SuperDUO pros
- Sync mode makes it easy to charge a split flight pack (i.e. 2x6S for 700E). Set up one channel, hit start, and the second channel inherits all of the settings.
- Highest output on a dual port charger
- Only needs 24V to make peak output
- Separate screens for the two channels
- Some more advanced functions (like balance only mode)
- Memory function makes it easy to access commonly used charge settings
- Available PC software

SuperDUO cons
- Pauses the charge once every minute for 3 seconds, then returns to full output very quickly. Unless you run a bigger than necessary power supply, this can cause your power supply to shut down. Also if you run on a generator, this can cause the charger to reset if you run very high output with features like "Eco Throttle" on the Honda EU2000i active.
- I don't much care for the display layout. The default charge screen doesn't show mAh, you have to press a button to access that screen.
- It's huge! Quite a bit wider, and also taller than the TP820CD
- Takes extra button presses to start charging.
- Separate balance boards for everything, doesn't come with Thunder Power balance boards. Extra stuff to carry. I'm strongly considering rewiring a set of TP820CD balance boards to work with my SuperDuo.
- Does not display input current (if it does I surely can not find it)
- Storage charge program charges to a higher voltage than I think it should. (I prefer 3.85V which is what TP820CD and iCharger do)
- Problems with charging with USB connected. Should have opto isolated the USB port.

iCharger 3010b (x2 for dual port charging)
- Very high output on a single port (30A/1000W)
- Easy to navigate menus
- User configurable balance rate
- Most flexible input voltage of any of these chargers (I think it's 9V-38V, while the other two are limited to 28 and 29V respectively, if I remember correctly). Want to run two iCharger 15V power supplies in series to power it? No problem.
- Very compact
- Lots of customizable settings, i.e. low voltage cutoff for power supply, max input current
- Displays input voltage and current
- Regenerative discharge can be used to discharge packs very quickly (I think Hyperion has this as well)

iCharger 3010b cons
- Only a single port, need to buy two, or parallel charge, if you want to charge more than one battery at a time. This would be more costly than either of the other two options.
- Quality of some components may not be the best. Buttons have to be pressed a little harder sometimes to make them work. The wires that connect the balance board to the charger tend to break off. After replacing several individual wires I finally rewired mine with more flexible silicone covered wires from epbuddy.com. Had to make my own cables though.
- No factory support in the US, but ProgressiveRC and EP Buddy are great to work with
- No factory charge control software, but there is some third party software available for monitoring

So there it is, just what I can think of off the top of my head. If I had to pick amongst the 3 right now, I would probably go with two of the iChargers. The footprint would be roughly the same as a single Hyperion SuperDUO, if not a little bit more compact, and the charge output would be higher. Wider input voltage range means I could get away with running on 36V input (3 12V power supplies in series).

So there you have it, my thoughts on all 3 chargers after living with them for a good amount of time.

Aralan,

This is the best buyers guide I have seen on the three chargers. Having the SuperDuo, I agree with everything you said. Thank you for the time it took to write all of this. I think many could benefit from reading this in a stickie (your post).

I ended up ordering 2x PL8 last Friday, (driven by 2x 1KW Meanwells @ 24V).

If for some reasons the PL8s don't work out for me, I will follow your lead and try the iChargers in a pair.

Thanks!

[aralan]

Originally Posted by cshutchinson

Aralan,

This is the best buyers guide I have seen on the three chargers. Having the SuperDuo, I agree with everything you said. Thank you for the time it took to write all of this. I think many could benefit from reading this in a stickie (your post).

I ended up ordering 2x PL8 last Friday, (driven by 2x 1KW Meanwells @ 24V).

If for some reasons the PL8s don't work out for me, I will follow your lead and try the iChargers in a pair.

Thanks!

Thanks! I hope it helps people cross shopping these chargers a little bit. This is just some thoughts off the top of my head based upon what I've liked, and not liked about these chargers after using them for a while, so not really a detailed comparison. I wanted to like the Hyperion more, but I haven't gotten there yet. Maybe after I spend some more time with it...

[3D Dave]

Aralan, VERY good writeup on those chargers.

It would be interesting to see what you think of the Power Lab 8.

I love mine but I also like the two completely separate ports and the ability to quickly check the voltage of a pack (total and individual cell) on the Super Duo without having to wait for the charger. The PL8 waits about 60 seconds before starting a charge or discharge to give you a reading.

[Dirtmagnet400]

Guys, this has been VERY informative! A HUGE to Aralan. I am ready for my next Charger also, and have been trying to decide between the Super Duo, iCharger 3010b (or Voltz equivalent), and the TP 820CD.

I am currently using a Hyperion 720i and an iCharger 308b. They are both good chargers, but my issue is balancing capability. My Hyperion is hit or miss on final balancing a pack, but the iCharger will NAIL any pack that i have. I believe this to be due to the higher balancing discharge rate of the iCharger... but not sure. On some of my very worn out Turnigy packs, the Hyperion will NOT balance them AT ALL unless they are warm or hot from a flight... when the IR is lower. The iCharger does not care. That makes me lean towards the iCharger or Voltz charger, but i would really prefer a dual port charger for charging different packs or dual 6S packs for a 12S setup.... hence looking at the TP 820CD. The question is, will the TP balance as confidently as the iCharger?? I can't find any balancing discharge specs (in mV) of the TP. Does anyone know what it is? Based on Aralan's excellent above post, it seems that the TP doesn't focus as much on perfect balance (if it's only worried about .03 or so Voltage difference) so that should make it faster, and that's probably good enough, but it's always nice to have the pack within .01 or so of each other...

Any thoughts? I haven't really gotten into parallel charging yet, but i could do that i suppose... Just not real clear on it, even though i've read and watched a lot of info on it.

[alexf1852]

Originally Posted by Dirtmagnet400

Guys, this has been VERY informative! A HUGE to Aralan. I am ready for my next Charger also, and have been trying to decide between the Super Duo, iCharger 3010b (or Voltz equivalent), and the TP 820CD.

I am currently using a Hyperion 720i and an iCharger 308b. They are both good chargers, but my issue is balancing capability. My Hyperion is hit or miss on final balancing a pack, but the iCharger will NAIL any pack that i have. I believe this to be due to the higher balancing discharge rate of the iCharger... but not sure. On some of my very worn out Turnigy packs, the Hyperion will NOT balance them AT ALL unless they are warm or hot from a flight... when the IR is lower. The iCharger does not care. That makes me lean towards the iCharger or Voltz charger, but i would really prefer a dual port charger for charging different packs or dual 6S packs for a 12S setup.... hence looking at the TP 820CD. The question is, will the TP balance as confidently as the iCharger?? I can't find any balancing discharge specs (in mV) of the TP. Does anyone know what it is? Based on Aralan's excellent above post, it seems that the TP doesn't focus as much on perfect balance (if it's only worried about .03 or so Voltage difference) so that should make it faster, and that's probably good enough, but it's always nice to have the pack within .01 or so of each other...

Any thoughts? I haven't really gotten into parallel charging yet, but i could do that i suppose... Just not real clear on it, even though i've read and watched a lot of info on it.

The TP820CD will leave the pack balanced to within 0.03V or better. This is mentioned in the manual. Thunder Power guys believe that balancing a lipo to 0.01V or less is wasted time because a pack after being discharged will either be in balance very well (better than it was charged/balanced) if pack is good quality and cells are well matched or out of balance to a degree because of low cell quality and/or bad cell(s). That's been my experience with charging with the TP820CD and checking lipo cells after a flight.

I also parallel charge with the TP820CD: 2 6S 3300 at 14 amps or 2 to 3 6S 2500 in parallel at 10 to 15 amps.

[The WoodCrafter]

Thank you for the write up Aralan, you have enabled me to make a decision.

I'm going to pull the trigger on a 306B.

I really don't see that I will ever need to charge a 10S battery, maybe 2 - 6S or even 2 - 5S which I can parallel up with all the power of this charger, but never a 10S so I don't need the 3010B.

The 308B should do very nicely. I have a 24V PS to power this dude.

[weng]

I have been using the 3010B for almost a year now and balance charge my 5000 hyperion packs at 10A in 17-19 minutes putting back 2900-3100ma. I recently borrowed a 0720 Super Duo3 and charging at 10A putting back 2900-3100ma it was taking 28-30 minutes. During the charge it was drawing 10A but taking forever to balance. I could not find a setting that would speed things up. Anyone have any ideas? I want a second charger and the dual charger is appealing but not if it's that slow.

JW

[The WoodCrafter]

Is the tolerance adjustable?

Maybe Hyperion may be balancing to a closer tolerance.
Or see if the change over from CC to CV is set too low on the Hyperion then it will take longer. Could you tell how long the 2 took for the CC stage, which should be the same.
If it is different 1 has a different change over point.

That is quite a difference in time.

[alexf1852]

You cannot adjust the balance tolerance on the Super Duo.

[The WoodCrafter]

Originally Posted by alexf1852

You cannot adjust the balance tolerance on the Super Duo.

That sucks.

[weng]

Originally Posted by The WoodCrafter

Is the tolerance adjustable?

Maybe Hyperion may be balancing to a closer tolerance.
Or see if the change over from CC to CV is set too low on the Hyperion then it will take longer. Could you tell how long the 2 took for the CC stage, which should be the same.
If it is different 1 has a different change over point.

That is quite a difference in time.

The time difference was, I thought, excessive. Would be a deal breaker for me.
I did not see a setting in the Hyperion manual on the change over from CC to CV like on the 3010B. Maybe I missed it or did not understand the manual.

JW

[The WoodCrafter]

With that much time difference I think it would be a deal breaker for me too.

That was pretty good that you got a chance to try the charger before you bought it.

[Diviner]

Excellent writeup OP.

One feature on my hyperion that I can't live without is the % capacity. Even though it is a consistent 8% off.

Question. Do the other brands have that feature?

[The WoodCrafter]

Originally Posted by Jahmer

Excellent writeup OP.

One feature on my hyperion that I can't live without is the % capacity. Even though it is a consistent 8% off.

Question. Do the other brands have that feature?

Percent capacity of what?

What's left or what you used?

My iCharger doesn't have that number that I have seen.