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04-09-2013, 05:29 AM | #61 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Aug 2012
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@AAU
Nice video. Might be you try the following: Fly the backward circle very slow and 5 circles in row without stopping. Then turn 180 and do the same. That gives you increase in control. |
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04-09-2013, 06:48 AM | #62 (permalink) | |
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Those videos are almost a month ago now. (wow has time flown) Was working mainly on side flips (rolls) IRL today till I ran out of light (going towards winter here). Also did a few backward circles (both CW and CCW). Doing them slow is harder than doing them fast (I practice both). I sim at least 30 mins each day. In the sim I do 5 8s in each of the 8 directions (forward/backward - inward/outward - upright/inverted). Can usually get each of these done without incident. Then 8 point slow piros (20 in total - 5 each direction - CW/CCW - upright/inverted) Finally now working on funnels (crash lots on those currently). Stopped recording piros as have not crashed or been out of area in last 10 flights (Up to session 136).
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TRex 700E Pro DFC HV (BD3SX) - Gaui X5 (6S/BD3SX), Blade 130X, RealFlight, Heli-X, Taranis+DSMX |
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04-09-2013, 03:00 PM | #63 (permalink) | |
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Try to visualize where the 90,180,270 are and lead the heli´s tail that way that it is exact tangential relative to the mid of the circle. Have the tail lead and do the cyclic out of your gut. Allways remember that tilting the heli is opposite of the tail´s circuit direction (sticks together or sticks away from each other) and slower means pushing the cyclic forward. Concentrate on SPEED and CIRCLE DIAMETER then they start looking nice. Remember to fly CCW and CW in front of you , left to you and right to you. You will need all of them, and all feel different. The one precise in front of you will be the later SPEEDCIRCLE. It is a lot harder than it seems, especially with wind. When you have nailed down that you´re ready for the pirocircuits. If you´re interested i can show you some orientation points and trainings for those then. |
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04-09-2013, 04:54 PM | #64 (permalink) | |
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Sticks are uncoordinated in backwards circles unless you are inverted (in which case they are co-ordinated, but reversed - been doing both as 8s in the sim daily for over a month). Uncoordinated turns you push the elevator to bank tighter (or slow down). Coordinated turns you pull the elevator to bank tighter. In the wind, you fight upwind (extra lift, less bank, less collective) but be prepared for turn to downwind (accelerates and drops, level disc a bit, add collective, elevator to slow up, the re-bank with aileron and tail). I fly the circles infront, left and right (practicing circles, inwards and outward 8s). It's control of the placement of circle. When doing 8's, I put the centre infront of me. When doing circles, it's the centre of the circle. As you stated "Concentrate on SPEED and CIRCLE DIAMETER", but add placement. After tail driven 8s, then funnels before piro-circles (and piro-8s). Mastering slow piros is/was the key that unlocks EVERYTHING else. I am OK at them, but it will take many more months to master.
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04-11-2013, 08:51 AM | #65 (permalink) |
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Didn´t want to anoy you, sorry.
I had a fairly good idea from your "post-blog" where you are. My idea for you was to start pirocircles as a next move. 1 additional piro / circle, 2 additional, cw/cw cw/ccw, ccw/cw, ccw/ccw and then as next the figure8 pirocircles with and without piroetting directional change. |
04-11-2013, 09:50 AM | #66 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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+1 for piro circuits.
As pirouettes come together nicely, you can start adding, at least 'easy'(*) direction, piro circuits! Since you are already at the top of keeping twitchy small helicopter at one spot, making it slowly gliding in circular motion (while pirouetting it) is not that hard. Think of it as slow pirouettes, next level. BTW no need to feel pressure to do them, but from what I saw a month ago, I am 100% sure you can start adding them in your routines - if nothing else - at those moments you dedicate to 'relax and try something new, interesting and dangerous' (in the sim, of course). You shouldn't be surprised by fact that you can already do them to the extend! (*) Easy is CW pirouettes with CW circuits (and other way round). My first attempts at CCW circuits while doing CW pirouettes and other way round ended up in piro squares! Never tried them since... |
04-11-2013, 03:54 PM | #67 (permalink) | |
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Finally getting funnels in the sim working (only just) and advancing piro-circles and mobiuses. Thank you for the tips.
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TRex 700E Pro DFC HV (BD3SX) - Gaui X5 (6S/BD3SX), Blade 130X, RealFlight, Heli-X, Taranis+DSMX |
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04-11-2013, 04:00 PM | #68 (permalink) | |
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My relax-time is currently loops, rolls, stall-720's and mobiuses. Will add prio-circles (both natural and unnatural). If I get called back to the UK, will dedicate extra time to visit. My nano's currently spend more airtime inverted than upright. Thanks for the tips. Hope you are also going well there since the weather there is now changing for the better.
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TRex 700E Pro DFC HV (BD3SX) - Gaui X5 (6S/BD3SX), Blade 130X, RealFlight, Heli-X, Taranis+DSMX |
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04-12-2013, 12:48 PM | #69 (permalink) |
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Can someone post of a video of what the "slow-piros" should look like? Again, thanks Arch
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mCX2 - mCPX v2(Brushless) - 450X - Trex-500E Pro FBL - 4503D - mCPX BL DX8 Hooked since June 2012... |
04-13-2013, 03:28 AM | #70 (permalink) | |||
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In one of my videos with clicky, I did one (not great, but recognisable). (1:25 - 1:38 CCW - piro)
(I need to make a more recent one). The aim is to get them perfectly on the spot. (REALLY hard to do with a micro as no piro compensation in the FBL controller and HIGHLY susceptible to air movement). In the sim I now do 8 point piros where I must stabilise for 1s in each orientation. I do about 20 in 10 mins (10 inverted, 10 upright). When I started, I relied on the sim to control the tail and force only 1 rotation per minute.
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TRex 700E Pro DFC HV (BD3SX) - Gaui X5 (6S/BD3SX), Blade 130X, RealFlight, Heli-X, Taranis+DSMX |
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04-13-2013, 11:51 AM | #71 (permalink) | |
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I did just put the trim a little in on the rudder. The second best is to put wind and gusts in the sim and use a fb heli with the rudder trimmed to one side. You can sim while watching tv with one eye.... It is just to hardwire the thumbs and the brain to the TX. Inverted is the same training. So actually you need 4 trainings from my knowledge, ( cw, ccw,) x ( normal, inverted.) |
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04-13-2013, 06:16 PM | #72 (permalink) | ||
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You are correct, you need to learn all 4 (upright/inverted - CW/CCW). That is why I practice all of them. Today's IRL flying was good, upright/inverted, forward/backward, CW/CCW, inward/outward 8's (ALL of them). No wind, at local sports ground (before the kids started their football). Did all 16 8s (over 4 batteries) on the 130x (no incidents). Still a long way to go before doing all 32 8s in 1 flight (to earn bigger heli). Just a side note: My 130x is dialed in and flies like the sim. That said, it almost shook itself to pieces on one takeoff as held it on the ground too long and it started to build up ground resonance. It stopped immediately once airborne. I'm glad I knew what I was looking at. Sim time and orientations training really pays off.
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TRex 700E Pro DFC HV (BD3SX) - Gaui X5 (6S/BD3SX), Blade 130X, RealFlight, Heli-X, Taranis+DSMX |
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04-14-2013, 12:51 PM | #73 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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Nice to see someone taking a serious approach to training in a rational fashion. It takes time, patience and discipline to advance as you are. Probably sounds like patting myself on the back, so be it, but I learned in much the same way you did and am a strong believer in the results it produces. As it's clear you enjoy helis and are committed to the hobby I believe that you should reward yourself with at least a 500 or larger quality heli when the time comes.
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04-17-2013, 08:47 AM | #75 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
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great thread, gonna take a lot of info from this thread, thanks for the link in the first post also, i started using it last night for the hover training in different directions and so on. deff gonna take some time to master all the manuvers, your deff doin things the right way and seem to keep yourself into your plan and not stray away from it since you have good overall control by now. props to you for that.
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04-17-2013, 09:44 AM | #76 (permalink) | |
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I document all this to help others follow a learning path (and show what a difference planning and proper practice makes). Did inverted/upright piros and circles (CW/CCW, nose/tail-first) with the 130x and nanos this evening in my 15m x 15m forest clearing. Slight gusty breeze 5-10kph (3-6mph). Made collective management on circles interesting. Daily sim training still involves inverted and upright 8 point piros (both CW and CCW) as well as all 8s (in/out, upright/inverted, tail/nose-first) and all funnels (CW/CCW, upright/inverted, nose/tail-down). All this take 2 x 15min sessions (then it's play time ). I plan on starting funnel 8's this week (as no longer crashing the funnels and keeping them over the field). Looking to get to piro-8s and piro-flips IRL by the end of the year. I figure it's much more fun when you can fly how you want without fear of crashing (or being out of control). Best of luck. I'll help where I can.
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04-17-2013, 12:51 PM | #77 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
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curious question. when your using sim to practice do you use heli's with standard flybar system or are you using FBL? i have been using flybar ones to train with as you have to make the corrections and none are done for you, i think it should help me in the longrun. i keep expo and ail about 30% using the 700. very difficult to stay that steady for hovering when using 0%. i have much more problem with the throttle side and turning the heli than i do the right stick. but using 100% throttle i guess there really isnt anyway around that. i tightened the springs on my dx6i thinkin itd help throttle control but it tends to be notchy so i backed them off some but thinkin i may back them off even more to be smooth and fluent.
1st question may have been answered in this thread somewhere but havent had a chance to read all pages yet. sorry if it was and im asking. |
04-17-2013, 05:46 PM | #78 (permalink) | |||||
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I've broken up your post to help with answering.
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FB does not make hovering easier or harder. What you are learning with this method is heli independent. If you can fly a FBL heli in all orientations, you can fly a FB heli in all orientations. I am learning/teaching how to fly, not trick. These differences between FB and FBL are not important unless you are; maintaining (building/wrenching) a heli, doing smack on the deck or competing FAI, Quote:
Use as much expo as you need to feel connected to the heli, but no so much it feels too "twitchy". I use 20% expo on aileron, elevator and rudder. Quote:
Side on is harder for me than nose or tail in. I mes up more side on than nose or tail in. Quote:
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At sometime in the future, I wlll make a web page and consolidate all the information held here (and post a reference and summary requesting it to be stickied). I have had quite a few comments from people saying this thread has helped.
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TRex 700E Pro DFC HV (BD3SX) - Gaui X5 (6S/BD3SX), Blade 130X, RealFlight, Heli-X, Taranis+DSMX |
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04-18-2013, 10:13 AM | #79 (permalink) | |||
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been working a little on slow piro circles, got my first few last night to stay out in front of me and even a couple sloppy figure 8's. not sure if phoenix has a way to slow down the sim like you've mentioned you do but i have found that going from 0 or 30% expo to 50 or 55% expo has helped a lot in controling a steady piro circle. Quote:
i think i need to loosen my throttle/pitch still but i may tighten the rudder a lil. the others feel good. i think dialing in the expo for what i need will be a big help once i find my sweet spot for my control ability. |
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04-18-2013, 05:54 PM | #80 (permalink) | ||||
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Phoenix can slow down time (Configure Settings > Physics tab > Simulation Speed slider). Quote:
Yes some pros use expo. Some don't. It's a tool, not a measure of expertise. Quote:
I use 20 expo on cyclic AND rudder. Expo on rudder is to limit cross play when doing quick switches from pos to neg collective when flipping (and better control in turns). The reason for this is high expo will lead to a "dead feeling" at mid stick. High expo will also start to move wildly at stick limits when fighting to re-gain control. Your thumbs (or fingers - I use pinch), will sensitise to movement over time. You want every control to show up through the mast (main shaft). As you are new to this, try pinch. There is less to un-learn and you should immediately have more control. It will feel odd at first, but persist for a few days (preferably a week or two). Then if still odd, switch back to thumbs. Use a neck strap to hold the TX. When I changed from thumbs to pinch, I needed to cut expo from 40 to 20 because control was MUCH better. Quote:
Personal notes: (and please do not take offence) Stubbz, please use capitalization for things like "I" and capitalize the first letter of a sentence and proper names. It makes it much easier to read. Stubbz, also, please, one idea per paragraph. Makes it easier for others to respond to.
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TRex 700E Pro DFC HV (BD3SX) - Gaui X5 (6S/BD3SX), Blade 130X, RealFlight, Heli-X, Taranis+DSMX |
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