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01-25-2013, 02:34 PM | #1 (permalink) |
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Join Date: May 2006
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Kosmik 160 shutdown
I had my kosmik 160 shut down on me today.
Hard cutoff, at low altitude. It was blinking 12 flashes after, but when power cycled it works fine. Not sure what to think here... don't want to fly it if it's going to do it again. But it appears to be working, so don't know if I want to send it back either... The setup is on a logo 700: -753mm blades -kosmik 160 -pyro 800-48 on a 17 tooth -14s gens ace 65c 4400mah -just set to mode 4, and bec up to 7.2v Conditions: - cold ! -10 degrees celsius -tail slide into a hard cyclic/collective stop Log: What's my issue here ? I see that because of the cold weather the packs sacked out down to below 3.3 v per cell right when it cut off, but I thought the lvc was a soft cut ? |
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01-25-2013, 02:43 PM | #2 (permalink) |
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Kosmik 160 shutdown
What does 12 blinks mean? Chk with prog disc if it slow cutoff
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01-25-2013, 03:08 PM | #3 (permalink) |
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12 blinks is "no further operation possible, return for service", but it still works fine once the power was cycled.
Just checked with the prog disk, soft cutoff is what's set. Magnets aren't shifted on the pyro, no continuity between the windings and the motor shaft... A 240 amp peak shouldn't be anything to a kosmik 160, no ? |
01-25-2013, 03:54 PM | #4 (permalink) |
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Send me your log but if its what I think it is it is in the process of being sorted right now. 240a is nothing for the Kosmik with good joints and cooling
I would try a fixed high timing value. Look at the change in power over a very short space of time. Its this issue that is being looked at right now and a fix will be here soon.
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01-25-2013, 04:08 PM | #5 (permalink) |
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240 can be too high for a 160, remember youre stopping a very heavy machine dead in its track with the 753 blades so you create a huge overload, personally i think the 800 is too small for your setup and flight manouvres, its only 5020 size remember. I would try the same with shorter blades and see what happens. But then theres also another possible explanation for the huge spike, the pyro windings i took off were damaged internally, this wont show if wires short out on the same pairs but will cause problems for esc. Many of the problem motors had this internal damage so my bet is it may have been a player in this case
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Tdr quantum 4530 1.4 yy h/ jive120 beastx, Vibe e 8 12s mx 700 1.32yy vbargov fusionhawk, Banshee nr 36 kosmik 200 pyro 800 1.4yy 455kv 14s beastx, xtreme 700 pyro 850 1.5yy 14s kosmik 200 |
01-25-2013, 04:13 PM | #6 (permalink) |
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The windings did look pretty rough on mine, but no continuity between the iron and windings on mine with a simple ohm meter.
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01-25-2013, 04:13 PM | #7 (permalink) |
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Also firmware is up to date.
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01-25-2013, 04:17 PM | #8 (permalink) |
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Power was very solid, the cold temps were certainly impairing the batteries ability to hold voltage under load though, that certainly upped the amp draw.
I don't think the motor is a bad fit actually. The question is, will the kosmik 160 only spike to 240 amps, and then do a hard shut down ? Or is something wrong ? I'm just trying to figure out if it should go back, or what ? Probably send both the motor and esc, but does this stuff still go to germany, or to the us now ? |
01-25-2013, 04:44 PM | #9 (permalink) |
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can you post log ?
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honey bee king II |
01-25-2013, 05:04 PM | #10 (permalink) |
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The difference between knowing your s**t and knowing you're s**t! Optipower - Kontronik Drives
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01-25-2013, 05:10 PM | #11 (permalink) |
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Does this look like the issue you were speaking of Ben ?
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01-25-2013, 05:45 PM | #12 (permalink) |
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that error, and shutdown is *identical* to mine in log, timeing goes way up, amp goes way up, then shutdown, mine was 246A log and 200A kosmik.
kontronik said to me it was a firmware error and suggested fixed timeing, but I wasnt running a pyro. but pretty similar size motor.
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01-25-2013, 05:48 PM | #13 (permalink) |
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Interesting.
Well, the online update feature is going to get used anyways, lol ! What'd you go with for a fixed timing value ? |
01-25-2013, 05:56 PM | #14 (permalink) |
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22 degrees
but I will try 24/26 next, Ive had quite a few successfull flights at 22, but I feel I can get even more power. how many successfull flighte have you had before this shutdown?
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01-25-2013, 06:11 PM | #15 (permalink) |
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About a dozen on 713mm blades. No problems there, but was only at 160 amp peaks.
First flight on 753mm it took a dump on me. Canopy and landing gear, could have been worse... |
01-25-2013, 06:51 PM | #16 (permalink) |
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Hmmm - maybe I'll keep my YGE 160 on my Diabolo with 753 blades - was gonna stick a Kosmik in but might waith till this issue sorted.
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01-25-2013, 06:58 PM | #17 (permalink) |
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I would imagine its a priority for them.
It is a nice esc, the logging is outstanding, worth it over the yge just for that, if it were bug free anyways... I changed from my mikado/yge due to its inability to run 14 pole motors at decent rpm. |
01-25-2013, 07:10 PM | #18 (permalink) |
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my observation on this is:
it seems to happen with "to small" motors with perhaps to much copper in them, this is only a theory, but out of the 4 helis I log goblin 630, stock 750mx, kosmik 200A, all good all good on auto timeing goblin 700, stock 4035-560, kosmik 200A, all good auto timeing goblin 700, stock 4530-540KV YY 1.5mm all good on auto timeing 7hv, 750mx rewind 5+6T YY, 1,6mm, not good on auto, works on 22 fixed I see the PWM going up to 100% , then timeing going up, and on the less copper motors, and the larger that never sees the high timieng, not a problem. the peaks on both scorps are quite equal, but much less spikes on the larger one, and more even curve, less higher timeing, with 100% pwm. The kosmik first tries 100% pwm to motor, when that fails, it advances timeing, degrees for degree getting the most out of your motor, and keeping headspeed, this is really a cool feature, but I think in some scenarios it has trouble I think when timeing goes up, maybe the esc doesnt understand what happens to motor, and something happens, loosing signal and shutting down, could be to much copper to weak magnets on my motor, that has been suggested as a theory, but weird it happens on the stock motor you have.. the only common denominator I think is useing what maybe a to small motor, on a too big load. the 800 is 5020 size ish, which again is pretty equal to a 4035, and again a 4236(750mx) since it has weaker magnets. either way I think its to small for your 750 blades. I have a pyro 800 around here somewhere I can try the theory on with either 770/800 machine. Someone with intimate knowledge of kosmik and its firmware should probably correct my flaws in theory and facts
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01-25-2013, 07:17 PM | #19 (permalink) |
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I set mine to 25 degrees fixed.
When I get another set of landing gear in a few days, I'll test it again and make sure it's not an issue with the pyro 800-48. Perhaps Stolla is correct and the pyro 800 is too small for what I'm doing, and as you said, that's a contributing factor. Although you see guys using them in the logo 800... This could be quite a circle for me. I got a pyro 800-48 so that I could run 14s with bigger blades. Stock yge esc didn't work with pyro 800-48, so went to the kosmik. Now the pyro is too small, need a larger motor, that will be ten pole, which the stock yge would have worked with. Lol ! I have access to a 4530-450 limited I think, maybe I should try that on auto timing and see what happens... |
01-25-2013, 07:26 PM | #20 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
the pyro 800 is a 498 gram very small motor, 750mx/4035 is around 450-460 grams, I would place it above a 4035, and under 4530 for power, maybe like 4525. It would be good to have a look at your .dat or .lov, not just snippets and screenshots maybe if you write your main/pinion so I can make a .ini and have correct hs when I read it, how much pitch and cyclic you got? I would indeed try the 4530-450 since you have access just to compare
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