For Horizon Hobby Product Development!

[merlin3]

what is it exactly that the mcpx can't do?

Originally Posted by MilitaryMachinist

I think the mini size helicopters like the MCPX are way under powered stock. They are great to learn on though, very durable for the most part.

[Mojappa]

Originally Posted by merlin3

what is it exactly that the mcpx can't do?

Tic tocs, climb out of botched attempts at new moves, autorotate... Just sayin'.

[merlin3]

it will tic toc, botched attempts is pilot error so don't see a problem there, and why would you need to autorotate a heli this size? do you want the weight of a one way bearing? even if you had a one way, you don't have enough blade to be able to do it.

[InFocus]

To the intermediate pilot who is just getting started with 3d moves, (not just loops and rolls), the mCPX will seem harder because it won't tolerate heavy thumbs, or pinch . Doing so, bog the mains too much, and/or blows the tail out. Even the most intermediate 450 will seem easier at times pilot because the extra power allows them to pull out of mistakes.


In the hands of what I will call and elite class expert pilot who has finely honed collective management skills, the mCPX can perform most of the named 3d maneuvers. In stock form it can't do them as hard and sharp as the larger beli's costing 20 times more.

So, in fact, the mCPX can't do everything a larger heli can do.
But I think it does everything you'd expect a $200 micro heli to be able to do.

[Thalios]

Inverted pull bail outs?

I had the hardest time figuring out how much (actually how little) collective I had to give the mCPX to be able to flip without hitting the ground. And i've been flipping, inverted, sloppy tic tocs, etc on both my Prôtos and B450.

The mCP X, in MY case, is much harder to fly than both my B450 3D and my FB or FBL Prôtos 500.

[MilitaryMachinist]

Its a power management issue. Its underpowered. Don't believe me? Go look at the mini cp. Its a brushed motor, its more durable, still beginner friendly, and has much sharper 3d moves. Oh and price... its 10 dollars less lol. But it only comes with one battery too. You don't have to sacrifice anything here.

[Mojappa]

Originally Posted by merlin3

it will tic toc, botched attempts is pilot error so don't see a problem there, and why would you need to autorotate a heli this size? do you want the weight of a one way bearing? even if you had a one way, you don't have enough blade to be able to do it.

The auto thing was just a technical (and smartassed) answer to what it won't do and I wanna see a stock one doing tic tocs, not gonna just take your word on that 'cause nobody has shown it can be done yet.

[tommeke]

sometimes it can't even pull out FF last time i wanted to go real fast, banked it almost 90 degrees, and then it bogged like hell result: broken land skid, canopy, and 2 canopy mounts and don't blame the pilot, i can do this perfectly with my 250 and the mcpx can't handle it, just saying, if horizon would sell a brushless one, i would be all over it I mean COME ONE you have the technology so please after you release the 500 start working on a brushless mini cp

[spykez]

Originally Posted by MilitaryMachinist

Its a power management issue. Its underpowered. Don't believe me? Go look at the mini cp. Its a brushed motor, its more durable, still beginner friendly, and has much sharper 3d moves. Oh and price... its 10 dollars less lol. But it only comes with one battery too. You don't have to sacrifice anything here.

Completely agree about the mCP X being underpowered but it is a very useful learning tool. And it doesn't break all that readily. All that is said it is/was bloody brilliant at the time of introduction and arguably still is a great entry level heli.

As for the mini CP, I'll be finding out this weekend Just got delivery so we shall see. I got a devo 8S by the way, MM, not a 12S, It feels very very very nice. Much nicer than my DX6i for sure. I'll see how she actually works in practice, both the 8S and the mini CP. My opinion still not made up as you can see.

I'll charge up some Lipos and give the mini cp a whirl later. I hear she's pretty tough BAR the servos and the big issue I'll have is getting spares. We'll see how she works out.

[MilitaryMachinist]

Im still on original parts all the way around... nothing has broken or failed... where as my mcpx would have needed parts by now. Even with its higher head speed, and more power you will be surprised the beating it takes.

[spykez]

I'll soon find out.

Have tons of work taken home for the weekend. !@#312@!, but I figure I'll be able to charge and fly a copuple of lipos in the basement. Annoying thing is the heli only came with one lipo. I got two of 'em though so maybe I'll get 5 mins of total flight time lol.

Ah.. it wasn't for real life constraints...

[newhelicrasher]

Originally Posted by Thalios

1st, would be way more than 30$.

Second, these plastics would increase the costs a lot, and you want some of the parts to break in crashes. A skid breaking saves the frame. blade grips breaking saves the head, etc.

Yes and no....why wouldnt they make all these parts out of the same unbreakable comb plastic...then problem solved in alll the mentioned parts and for cost.....those combsare pretty damn cheap...i doubt the plastic would be more expensive.


Call me a conspiracy theorist if you wish....but notice the mark up on replacement parts.......your heli would cost twice as much to build it out of replacement oem parts than it comes bnf......explain that!

[Thalios]

Originally Posted by newhelicrasher

your heli would cost twice as much to build it out of replacement oem parts than it comes bnf......explain that!

really?

build a car from spares?

build a tv from spares?

build a bike from spares?

name one product that building from spares is cheaper than the final product?

And that comb plastic, how does it resist impacts, vibrations, etc? What's the weight of it?

There's tons of factors. I'm pretty sure they "think" before building these parts and they factor costs, durability, and many other things. And yes, profit is one of them.

[newhelicrasher]

You have a good point on the elctronics but I can tell you from first hand experience that you can definitely build better and upgraded bicycles then stock factory built using equal or better components for less than the cost of an assembled bike shop quality mountain bike but back on topic.

i have just experimented with a black comb labeled unbreakable across the to ridge.

Tooth test bent tooth 90 degrees to one side then the other then as close to 180 degrees as possible (the frame gets in the way) only damage slight grey color rather than black at bend like a seam.
I then grabbed pliers and twisted the same tooth 180 degrees back and forth....on second completion of back and forth return to center it broke off.

i then used pliers on another tooth rotarimg in a single.direction 360 degreesx3 complete rotations and was able to pull it off with the pliers.

My point here is that 2 of these would be plenty enough plastic to make all the parts out of as mentioned before this comb is roughly 35 cents.

I can bet there is not one single designer or engineer at Blade that can honestly look at the joint between the ball and blade grips on the msrx and think that will hold up...they know damned well it will break under ANY stress...it is barely strong enough to hold together with the force of the spinning blades.

Now I am sure the official answer is it is designed to break to save other parts like blades for instance....but to me that is a sorry excuse because.the solution lies in making all of the plastic better not just that one component making all stress points identical.

Pehaps it isnt rigid enough as a plastic I really dont know..I am not a plastics engineer but at the same time people are having great success making Paper yes I said paper that are as.durable as the.stock canopy. I have lunch bags that are stronger.than the canopy on the Scout.....lol.

HH and Blade are not in the microheli biz to sell helis as.much as they are replacement parts...I bet they could still make millions giving away all their products just with sales of replacement parts.....think at&t giving away smart phones for next to nothing......the money is made in the service..this includes cars. The real money is not made on the sales floor it is made in the service department fixing parts.that are.intentionally designed to be wear items....not because they have to be wear items but because its more profitable.

We could all have cars that last 50 years and run on water with an onboard hydrogen converter....but no smart car company is even interested in that idea and you might suddenly find yourself dead if you made it reality...google stanley myers.

[Thalios]

Originally Posted by newhelicrasher

We could all have cars that last 50 years and run on water with an onboard hydrogen converter....but no smart car company is even interested in that idea and you might suddenly find yourself dead if you made it reality...google stanley myers.

I agree with you, but again, with a 3.5M$ price tag........

It's all about costs.

[newhelicrasher]

Originally Posted by Thalios

I agree with you, but again, with a 3.5M$ price tag........

It's all about costs.

Costs of enough plastic the same as.unbreakable combs .70 retail...so not in this case

lets.get extreme and say 2 bucks per copter...would you not have got yours if it was 2 dollars more expensive?

[Thalios]

Originally Posted by newhelicrasher

Costs of enough plastic the same as.unbreakable combs .70 retail...so not in this case

lets.get extreme and say 2 bucks per copter...would you not have got yours if it was 2 dollars more expensive?

It might require different process, drying or heating process, different molds, who knows.. Pretty sure they have a reason..

[newhelicrasher]

Originally Posted by Thalios

It might require different process, drying or heating process, different molds, who knows.. Pretty sure they have a reason..

I agree they have a reason we only disagree on what that reason is...I am 90 percent certain it has to do with profit when you MUST replace a part that didnt necc have to break in the first place but is actually designed to break so you reach into your wallet and spend some more money on your Blade

The positive side of this is that it gives aftermarket makers a reason to exist and when we get tired of breaking the oem junk we get to bling out our birds....so there is an upside!

[InFocus]

I agree that their motive is to make a profit. I disagree that they purposely design the product to break. For example, the mCPX, the main gear slips on the main shaft in crashes. They could have easily made it so this wouldn't happen by either pinning it or attaching in a different way. However, in so doing would increase the likelihood of breaking the main shaft, or bending the feathering spindle, etc..

If they wanted the mSRX to break more, they could bump up the head speed. This may even allow it to be more stable, but alas, they are aware the lower head speed allows it to remain very durable.

Another example is the DS76 servos with plastic gears. The use of plastic gears is always up for debate. They do save weight, and performance wise are a very fast servo. They are more likely to strip, which can help save other parts from bending an breaking like swash and grips. Also, why have we never heard of any servo maker creating light servos with 'unbreakable plastic' gear sets?

I can clearly see that HH is trying to build a durable product, but yet keep their costs low.
Them controlling the cost helps them, but it also helps us.
It allows them to create a heli at a price point and total cost of ownership that the average hobbiest can afford. So, they can make money, and we can get a product.

If they purposely made the product break, no one would buy it. They would earn the reputation of just producing fragile products, which in the end folks would not buy. This would affect their bottom line.

While, in the past they (and many other companies) have had 'less successful' products which would break often, or be considered very fragile, I don't think the reason was because they meant for them to break, it just was an unfortunate design or compromise decisions that didn't work out.

I have mixed feelings about the OEM market.
- Some OEMs have reputable products, that actually 'fix' something.

- Some OEMs have products which are actually inferior to the stock product. Their only motive was to make profit, and put out ill conceived products. MH aluminum main shaft for the mCPX falls into this category. More fragile than stock.

- Some OEM have products that only serve as bling. Granted it looks good, it is often at the cost of extra weight, or poorer performance.

This thread started out talking about the wonders of 'unbreakable plastic'. Sorry, thats a myth. There is no wonder plastic that is unbreakable in all applications. Someday, maybe, but not today..

[newhelicrasher]

A simple fix on the msrx blade geips is to use a steel ball threaded into the grip rather than a.molded.plastic ball witha tiny contact point. While I am waiting for my rhk grips ...because of course blade has them on backorder because EVERYONE who has ever crashed an MSRX ( my exact point) breaks the ball off the grip....I used a tiny screw temporarily....I have crashed more times since replacement than ever....I actwully have two days of cashing with nothing broken.....with the stock grips 2-3 crashes max before a ball pops.

Just saying...the screw=2¢ a threaded ball might be 3.