should i change my raptor 50 for a frenzy?

[bannana]

well lately i've been eyeing the $149 kit from a main hobbies and it really looks sweet
i really love my raptor but sometimes i feel i need something more updated
is it worth the change or i should stay with my raptor?
im looking for some owners response

thanks

[heckenr]

Hello,
I am having the same question now. I like my Raptor, but I feel that I need something more responsive and also with faster servo movement. So I am thinking of ordering one through Amainhobbies with FBL head and Align 610 servos.

Did you buy the TZ Frenzy and if yes how is it ??

Best Regards from Germany,
Roland

[kc8qpu]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. This heli is so worth the money spent. You won't regret it. It is much faster and flies much much better than any raptor. Don't get me wrong the raptor is such a nice and steady airframe but it is outdated.

[Raptor30_V1]

Hello,

I do not completely agree, a Raptor can not be outdated, as there are many different versions and the latest (Titan SE) can keep up (flight precision & agility) with newer makes as T-Rex600 etc.

The Frenzy 50 & 90 seems to be a well made nitro, based on design elements of Raptor and JR Vibe - for me this is no clone .. for others it might be one .. this has lots to do with definition of what a clone should be ..

As you're asking about this machine and some people just say buy-buy-buy, I think you should know as well, that there were a few inconveniences with the FZ-50. No offense, just in case you are not an experienced mecanical guy to know, if you will be able to modify your FZ-50 if necessary..

I remember some discussions here about using the main-gears from the Raptor and especially the gear-hub. A few parts were under re-work and it would be wise to ask for the current state first.

Although FZ-50 might be cheaper at Hobbyking at the first look, for Americans I would buy it at amainhobbies as first shipping (and tax) will be cheaper and even more important, amainhobbies stand for support meanwhile Hobbyking's is weak (even though I like Hobbyking for certain things) ..

So I would do a good reading about the Frenzy FZ-50 first and then decide. If the above issues have been resolved IMO the Frenzy FZ-50 seems to be a fine machine for little money

Hopefully (for you) someone having a Frenzy FZ-50 and knowing about pro & cons jumps in and can tell you first-hand.

Best Regards,
Oliver

[odam2k]

All I can add to this is that once I bought the Frenzy 50, I sold my Raptor 50

[Jordan1978]

Replace the Frenzy 50 main gear with Raptors 50 gear. I keep reading, and witnessing first hand, of the main gear stripping on the Frenzy 50. The Raptors gear is a better nylon reinforced gear that looks exactly as the frenzy's original gear. Havent stripped the raptors gear yet...

[odam2k]

I have at least 100 flights on my 50, and have never stripped a main gear.... I've stripped the little belt drive pulley gear, but not the main, and I fly it pretty hard...

[Raptor30_V1]

Hello again,

As I already wrote, pretty sure the Fenzy-50 is an awesome nitro-bird ..

If I would consider to buy a 90' size nitro, a Frenzy-90 would be my first choice, the reason why I dislike all of this kind of helicopters as (even) my beloved Vibe-50, an Outrage-50, Frenzy-50 or T-Rex600-nitro is pretty simple.. who flies a lot and trains 3D hard, will .. some day .. crash its helicopter .. the main flaw of all of this designs is, that if you destroy a side frame, rebuilding your helicopter cost a lot (or even if side-frames are reasoneable priced) will make you rebuild and set-up for a while..

I don't know if manufacturers know about that (they better should) - but as sponsored pilots get their helicopters for free (and maybe even do not have to rebuilt them on their own) - it is is neglected, that rebuilding defect side-frames is a pain-in-the-a**

A nice helicopter would be, to have servos & electronics completely separated from the side-frames (=mecanics) and therefore very simple (=userfriendly) repair ?

We should strive this point again and again, it's in our interest to have manufacturers develop nice-nitros regarding cost, ease-of-built, ease-of-setup, fair-priced-spares and ease-of-setup
Anyway, I do not have a Frenzy-50 (or a Frenzy-90), but pretty sure its a very nice nitro-bird

Best Regards,
Oliver

[mattsergo60]

I would say buy ! I have 2 tz 50's and a tz90. One TZ50 I just converted to the torque tube. ( don't do it; cost issue) Anyway they fly GREAT. as well as my Trex 600N. They flip like crazy and trac decently. The only negative thing I have to add is that there have been vibration issues. But come on ,it is a $150.00 kit !!. Balance the fan for sure. My first tz had a bad vibration and I replaced the dampner rubbers in the head. The ones I took out had the hole for the spindle out of center. It fixed it. Open up the holes in the frames for the motor mount to get a little better clutch alignment. I also replaced the bell with a vented KLONE bell ( raptor?)
The raptor is out of date. It is not even CCPM. The New x50 is, but that just came out. Spend the extra couple of bucks and convert your new TZ to 140* CCPM also, if your radio will support it. Get the metel swash,140 swash links, and the required control rods. You won't be sorry.
Lastly the TZ90 needs gone over before flying. Mine sheared the gear to mast bolts and let the tail spin wildly , and something else came loose ( can't remember) I saved it though There is alot of good info on here so check it out then make that purchase. Just go over it good to eleviate any headaches down the road.

[GunnyGlow]

The raptor is M-CCPM....not E-CCPM. There are advantages to mechanical mixing.....and there are advantages to electronic mixing.

You do understand the differences, right?

[mattsergo60]

I guess that was directed at me? mechanical VS electronic CCPM, sure I know the difference. 1 Servo to move the pitch + or - for M and 3 servos for E. ALL modern helis use some form of cyclic to pitch mixing. I trained a guy at my local field ,he had a nice Titan 50 mCCPM. If you are going to spend the money why not go eCCPM? 3 servos ; 120 deg or 140deg. I hope this clarifies the point I was trying to make, but really ,the only advantage I see to mCCPM -1 servo ,would have to be the ease of setup

[GunnyGlow]

Thats a big advantage to some and a great convenience to others.....the M-CCPM I mean.
I am reasonably certain that with an adequate pitch servo...most wouldn't be able to tell the difference between E and M mixing.

fwiw I have a R50 Titan....it uses Mechanical mixing. (but most of my collective heli's are, in fact, E-ccpm. )

[Raptor30_V1]

Hello,

As Gunny wrote (+1) .. everything has 2 sides of the coin ..

So why is it easier to setup a mechanical mixing .. or what is the meaning of *easier* ?

This is pretty simple, by *easier* we mean a better setup in very short time because fool-proof. Why?

To understand better we have to understand the drawback of any eCCPM system:

- no 3 (cyclic - same brand) servos will move the same way
- no 3 (cyclic - same brand) servos will move at the same speed
- servos have their complete resolution at +/- 45 degrees deflection or higher, on eCCPM they will just use half to 1/3 of that, guess what this mean regarding their output precision ?

Sure, you can program your 3 cyclic servos to get a lateral swash in low-, mid- and high- pitch position.. but as you loose resolution (see point 3 above) every position different to mid and extrema will make the swash boogy around when collective pitch input is made .. so you have a mid- to high- range Tx? You won't get out easely your interactions neither - don't get confused, this is not about the swash moving perfectly up/ down when collective pitch is applied, it's about:

- the swash moving in elevator when aileron input is made
- the swash moving in collective when aileron input is made
- the swash moving in collective when elevator is given

Sure, this is about interactions only .. let's take a look at phasing, which is an issue on many helicopters as well? Yes, mechanical mixing can have some phasing issues as well, but, as mechanical mixed helis have almost no interactions, pretty easy to spot phasing .. meanwhile guess that most people flying eCCPM have no clue about interactions nor phasing .. so how should they know about eleiminating it if interaction/ phasing are present at the same time? The Raptor might be outfashionnend for people reading (and believing rc-heliresource) - everyone else knowing because of experience and understanding will know, that there is nothing flying more perfect in a very short setup time then a Raptor ..

Yes, 140 degrees eCCPM is better than 120 degrees - but why? Only 135/ 140 degrees eCCPM will produce even elevator and aileron throw of swashplate (cyclic), at 120 degrees elevator output will always be less than aileron output .. everything else regarding the above points will remain the same, just not precis. The succes of FBL is based on people flying eCCPM and feeling something not doing what they expect .. this are exactly the main dis-advantages of eCCPM

Don't get me wrong, my current birds have all eCCPM - but I'm aware of the disadvantage and yes, I will buy a Frenzy 90 anyway ..

Even if the majority might believe marketers of eCCPM, 95% of us will be able to setup well a Raptor and not a eCCPM system

3 needle carbs, 50-plus engines with 3 needles, brushless hyper-macho servos, eCCPM .. all of that inventions working against us .. eCCPM normally means servos in the side-frames .. ever crashed such a machine? Good-luck, not only side frames often to expensive than a pain to repair as well?

Best Regards,
Oliver

P.S: Gunny, my deepest respect - it's such a pitty in this hobby having people believing everything this industry tells people .. only dead-fish swimm with the current

[mattsergo60]

You guys rant and rave about the ease and preference of mCCPM ,then,in the same sentence ,claim you own mostly all eCCPM machines. Are you smokin something? 3 needle carbs, 50 plus engines,brushless servos,all working against us? Are you serious? It is called progress;do you still use MS DOS instead of Windows because it's easy to use? All this new stuff makes the lesser stuff cheaper for the rest of us.Helis,servos,and gyros,are all 10 times better than they were 10 yrs ago and cheaper to boot! SO while you fly your Raptor with the O.S. 28, ball muffler,std servos,wood blades, and mechanical gyro, I will be looking at the new ads scouring for my next heli purchase Seriously though, LOL, you seem like the kind of person that needs the last word ( even if it's bull**it) so this will be my last post on this subject.I promise, I am done

[TCipolla]

Originally Posted by mattsergo60

You guys rant and rave about the ease and preference of mCCPM ,then,in the same sentence ,claim you own mostly all eCCPM machines. Are you smokin something? 3 needle carbs, 50 plus engines,brushless servos,all working against us? Are you serious? It is called progress;do you still use MS DOS instead of Windows because it's easy to use? All this new stuff makes the lesser stuff cheaper for the rest of us.Helis,servos,and gyros,are all 10 times better than they were 10 yrs ago and cheaper to boot! SO while you fly your Raptor with the O.S. 28, ball muffler,std servos,wood blades, and mechanical gyro, I will be looking at the new ads scouring for my next heli purchase Seriously though, LOL, you seem like the kind of person that needs the last word ( even if it's bull**it) so this will be my last post on this subject.I promise, I am done

Wow....

So what if he wants to fly his old raptor? I flew a kyosho Nexus 30 with an OS-32, wood blades, standard servos and a mechanical gyro for nearly 10 years. You know what? it was awesome. Yeah, I couldn't do 3D or even fly it backwards, but it was still fun! I could fly it for 15-17 minutes on one tank of fuel. I'd still have it if I could easily get parts for it.

I think his point was that eccpm and 3 needle carbs, while progress, can hinder the learning experience for a newcomer to the hobby.

My point is that, this is a HOBBY. Buy and fly what YOU want. Don't get caught up in what other people are doing all the time.

[Raptor30_V1]

Hello,

@ matt's-ego: yes I like to smoke .. not only my nitro bird smokes - although I always refused to smoke that nitro-stuff ..

If most of us fly some eCCPM bird is .. because that's what industry is lately delivering and telling its advantages ..

Do you know about interactions and phasing? Ever cracked some side-frames/ removed servos/ rebuild fuselage/ installed servos again/ and setup again ? Sure, modern Tx (mainly the high cost) have some SW to take care about this (interaction and phasing), but it will be never that easy and fast to setup and I never heard about anyone using this features (maybe the reason why FBL has such a success?) .. you like rc-heliresource? nothing wrong with that if it's ok for you, but, and this is up to everyone to decide, it's not about having the latest things to have real fun progressing ..

So 95% of people say, they notice the difference inbetween an OS-50 and an OS-55 (no, there are no threads at all about how to tune the 3d needle), 95% claim to feel how good their USD 150.- brushless servos are .. 95% can feel only 5% increase in nitro .. and so one .. at the end what counts is to train and to dare doing it on real ..

By the way, so many things are not that new as they are sold, history always repeats ..

If I'm that wrong with my statements:

- why are there so many threads about how to set-up a 3-needle carb ?

- why are there so many people unhappy with the unwanted behaviour of their eCCPM ? (Many just go FBL .. and problem solved)

From an economical perspective it is ok to have some evolution and product enhancement, but believe me, knowing how to tune a 50' size engine and even having 0.18" cyclic servos (wow, my 0.26" cyclics allowed an old R50V1 to do some piroflips) your still progressing very well if your mecanical setup and flight-skills grow continuosly, because:

1st: .. the man behind the machine makes the difference (and it's personality ..)
2nd: .. the man behind the machine makes the difference (and it's personality ..)
3rd: .. the man behind the machine makes the difference (did I mention it .. *and it's personality* ..)

It's all about having (safe) fun, learning and friendship .. not about having the newest items .. even though this related industries will stirr the wheel at a pace someday they will kill their base themselves .. we will .. and we already started to get saturated ..

So you have a Hirobo Shuttle ZX (my first bird) or a XYZ .. and you have a lot of fun and you get personally the most out about it? Who cares .. that's what this hobby is all about

So you need to have the latest items advertised .. ok for you, who cares .. this sort of people never help any others (novices, intermediates and progressed) on the FF, instead prefer to have endless *friends* ww on their mobil phones (hey, add facebook to rc-heliresources and your done)..

There were only a few real innovation the last few years.. 2.4 GHz .. Lipos and brushless motors ..

BTW: I help (setup and flight-progress) about (at least) one dozen of pilots of all skills on our FF and so, yes, I got an oppinion what is real innovation (improving and making life easier for people) or what is just for sales-sake
Some years ago it was about who has the nicest car .. now for some people it's about who has always the latest item in this hobbies ..

Best Regards,
Oliver

P.S: Interestingly open discussions are best with people that are in this hobby for a longer time and had/ tried many different things .. as there are *I heared*, I saw once and I experimented myself .. there are less experienced good buddies as well, the ones not carrying what's *state-of-the-art* and want to learn everything about this fascinating hobby