new Governor questions

[georgi UK]

Originally Posted by npomeroy

I don't know if this has been covered yet...
If the ESC has its own soft start (e.g. align RCE BL35X) is it OK to leave this on or will the governer fight it?

Nelson P

=] Nelson hi, leave it as it was previously, mine is quick response enabled and softstart.

georgi UK

[ollie2893]

It will depend on the AR bail-out behaviour sought v delivered by the ESC, no? I was just pondering the same question on the vbar. When hitting TH, to stop the motor, the FBL controller needs to pull the throttle to OFF. When aborting the auto, you will want to program the SK720 to ramp-up the throttle quickly. But if the ESC's soft spool-up has engaged meanwhile on account of the throttle having rested at OFF for too long, then the SK720 attempts to ramp up the throttle will be frustrated by the ESCs own idea about how to spool up the motor. Personally, I have disabled soft spool-up in the ESC and am leaving it all to the vbar.

PS: There may also be an issue during launch. Imagine the spool-up of the SK720 is faster than that of the ESC. The SK720 then sees the motor not responding to its RPM demands and it will ramp-up the throttle. To no avail because the actual ramp-up is governed at this moment by the ESC. The likely result of this bad feedback loop is gonna be initial overspeeding (and some hunting) by the SK720 on launch.

[georgi UK]

=] Ollie hi! I'm just being cautious here to avoid stripping main gears, SK have doubled the auto-bail out ramp in IU with 3.02

"* Governor will now spool up 2x as fast if set to RPM2 or RPM3 (IdleUp 2/3), for faster auto-rotation recoveries"

if this wind would drop I could test it!!

georgi UK

[ollie2893]

Originally Posted by gmcallister

I'm just being cautious here to avoid stripping main gears

Say that again. Guess what this numb-nuts here just did Yes, the risk is that under the wrong conditions, the ESC lets rip and the motor will shred the spur (or worse). So potential overspeeding is probably a price worth paying. And the problem is also if during AR bail-out the FBL+ESC let totally rip, you strip another gear (or worse). Ok, back to soft-start it is... Thanks.

[georgi UK]

Originally Posted by ollie2893

And the problem is also if during AR bail-out the FBL+ESC let totally rip, you strip another gear (or worse).

=] ooooops!! yes I'm playing on this side of caution, if the auto is being aborted because of unfavourable conditions, the last thing we need is a stripped main gear where she is going in anyhow,

the blades will possibly be out of line also before the gear lets go, hopefully the softstart will allow for a better recovery??

I'm running the 188T bevel main gear on a T6, Mikado use a double herringbone which is much better!!

take it you are happy and enjoying FBL programming??!

georgi UK

[npomeroy]

I Must swat up on multiquotes..

Referring to the Align ESC soft start which Georgi recommended to keep activated alongside the SK gov:

Well I tested the SK gov on my 450 for the first time: On spool-up there was a brief power loss just after lift-off. Revs dropped and it "fell" a few inches before recovering itself. Anyone else see this? I haven't tried disabling the ESC's internal soft start yet (it is a pain going through a menu and counting beeps).

The other thing is my previously solid tail is now making lots of little wags, almost vibrations. I've lowered the gain and it seemed to help a bit. But I'm thinking for my flying style which was fine with V2.04 I may not bother with the governer.

Nelson P

[heathy]

Now i'm a little concerned. Just about ready to put the 6HV back up, and was going to fit the phase sensor and gov.
The hobbywing hv70 has a soft start thats as fast as i've ever seen, so to add this to a already fast sk ramp up would cause probs.

I thought the sk gov had values that could be changed for this, ie, ramp speed ect??

Think i may wait for a while, after all i have a hard enough time keeping them in the air as it is

[georgi UK]

=] Heathy, don't be put off!! ollie is on another gov, not SK!

georgi UK

[ollie2893]

Originally Posted by gmcallister

ollie is on another gov, not SK!

True. Not that I would know - this sounds ever so familiar:

Originally Posted by npomeroy

My previously solid tail is now making lots of little wags, almost vibrations. I've lowered the gain and it seemed to help a bit.

I don't know what the SK defaults are but if they are anything like on the vbar - those are dialed-in for Nitro - then you need to lower your gains A LOT for electric. Try a different take. Drop the gain materially and see whether you lose HS.

Originally Posted by npomeroy

On spool-up there was a brief power loss just after lift-off. Revs dropped and it "fell" a few inches before recovering itself.

Was that after the head had settled post spool-up? Or did you launch half-way through the soft start? I think you will get a problem (on any FBL controller) if the FBL governor wants to ramp up faster than the ESC itself. In that case, the FBL controller will become "frustrated" that RPM aren't building up fast enough in response to its throttle instructions and it will ramp up the throttle beyond what would be required to achieve the RPM target. During spool-up, this should work itself out though once the ESC has ramped up beyond the FBL's target RPM. The FBL controller will then "panic" and pull down the throttle. You will get a little hunting. If you have some telemetry, your should see this. However, once the HS has stabilized on the ground, it should not drop as spectacularly as you describe.

[georgi UK]

Originally Posted by npomeroy

Well I tested the SK gov on my 450 for the first time: On spool-up there was a brief power loss just after lift-off. Revs dropped and it "fell" a few inches before recovering itself. Anyone else see this? I haven't tried disabling the ESC's internal soft start yet (it is a pain going through a menu and counting beeps).

The other thing is my previously solid tail is now making lots of little wags, almost vibrations. I've lowered the gain and it seemed to help a bit. But I'm thinking for my flying style which was fine with V2.04 I may not bother with the governer.

Nelson P

=] hello Nelson, are you using the "manage collective" in the drive system?? if so, what you are experiencing is this function, where is reduces collective to allow the RPMs to be met,

in your case with a slower head-speed, and higher hover pitch it will be more noticeable, dis-able this and see how different it feels??

if the tail is wagging reduce the Gov gain, not the tail gain.

georgi UK

[npomeroy]

Originally Posted by gmcallister

=] hello Nelson, are you using the "manage collective" in the drive system?? if so, what you are experiencing is this function, where is reduces collective to allow the RPMs to be met,

in your case with a slower head-speed, and higher hover pitch it will be more noticeable, dis-able this and see how different it feels??

if the tail is wagging reduce the Gov gain, not the tail gain.

georgi UK

Thanks for that Georgi.
No, I haven't selected "manage collective".
Maybe I will disable the soft start in the ESC and see what happens.
I'll adjust the Gov gain.

nelson NZ

[georgi UK]

=] hey! I like the NZ bit, maybe we should all do that!!

just watch the main gear Nelson, reduce the low ramp if it comes in too quickly, it can kick!!

georgi USSR

[npomeroy]

Originally Posted by gmcallister

just watch the main gear Nelson, reduce the low ramp if it comes in too quickly, it can kick!!
georgi USSR

Ahh. So the low ramp number is decreased to slow the ramp-up (actually the notes visible when mouse-overed indicate this). I've often found the SK GUI numbers non-intuitive. E.g. a big number for Hiller decay seems to mean Hiller effect decays in less time.

stalin

[georgi UK]

=] yes that will slow things down Nelson,

georgi blank

[npomeroy]

Originally Posted by npomeroy

I Must swat up on multiquotes..

Referring to the Align ESC soft start which Georgi recommended to keep activated alongside the SK gov:

Well I tested the SK gov on my 450 for the first time: On spool-up there was a brief power loss just after lift-off. Revs dropped and it "fell" a few inches before recovering itself. Anyone else see this? I haven't tried disabling the ESC's internal soft start yet (it is a pain going through a menu and counting beeps).

The other thing is my previously solid tail is now making lots of little wags, almost vibrations. I've lowered the gain and it seemed to help a bit. But I'm thinking for my flying style which was fine with V2.04 I may not bother with the governer.

Nelson P

I've lowered the governer gain to 35% and the tail wag is slower but still there.
I've lowered my pitch curve so the heli stays on the deck until spooled up. It does have a down-surge in revs about 3/4 of the way through spool-up.
I'm wondering about various ESC/SK interactions: When checking my ESC settings I see it is on the slowest of the 3 "response speeds". I suspect the SK governer might not like a slow response via the ESC!
See my other thread re communicating with the ESC to change the settings.

Nelson NZ

[npomeroy]

I reprogrammed my ESC with another Rx independently of the SK. Cancelled soft start, changed throttle response speed to high. On the SK I lowered "low ramp" to 60.
It spooled up gently enough with no rpm drop. Still some tail wag. It must be AFFECTED by tail gains, but shall I keep reducing governer gain below 35?

Nelson NZ

[taoY]

My T550 with 600mx, stock ESC, 550 blades, and 16T pinon, it had tail wag and high pitch pulsing sound w/ v3.0 when governor gain was set at the default 50. Georgi recommended lowering the governor gain. The wag and pulsing sound was gone when the governor gain was set at 33.

Upgraded to v3.02 the other day, the pulsing sound came back w/ a slight tail wag. Lower it to 28 and the pulsing sound is gone in FF, loop, roll, stall turns. But the sound comes back when doing tic-toc and rainbow.

Basically, I have the same question. How low is too low?

Thanks

[npomeroy]

I'm down to 28% Gov gain, 31% (locked) tail gain, on TRex 450 running 2600 rpm.
I'd like to know if there are trends, e.g. higher or lower Gov. gains on big or small helis, high and low head speeds.