I'm ready to try the self-level feature

[freeze]

Hey guys I respect your opinions, but I don't see how expecting a manufacturer to make good on the statements they make about their products is "bitching".

Ad hominem comments wont change the fact that the following questions continue to go unanswered.

1. If the self-leveling is working flawlessly as most beta users have stated, why hasn't the firmware update been released?

2. Why has the time for the firmware release (according to Skookum) come and gone and yet we have not had heard any update from Skookum?

[blade strike]

Originally Posted by freeze

Hey guys I respect your opinions, but I don't see how expecting a manufacturer to make good on the statements they make about their products is "bitching".

Ad hominem comments wont change the fact that the following questions continue to go unanswered.

1. If the self-leveling is working flawlessly as most beta users have stated, why hasn't the firmware update been released?

2. Why has the time for the firmware release (according to Skookum) come and gone and yet we have not had heard any update from Skookum?

1. There is more than SL in the next f/w update...

2. Cant answer not them

[OnTheSnap]

Freeze,
With patience like yours I would recommend you avoid new product releases at all costs. Just stick with the stuff that's a couple years old.

Unfortunately delays like this are the norm for every company with new products. And I'd rather deal with a cautious company like Skookum rather then a foolish one like Align (the 3g bugs at release were laughable. Then the delays for the updates were even worse).

Software that controls a $1000 heli needs considerable testing after changes are made to the code. The only mistake they made was being way to optimistic with their schedule. But engineers tend to do that since everything always seems easier then it really is. Ask me how I know this.

[wasabro]

Originally Posted by OnTheSnap

Freeze,
With patience like yours I would recommend you avoid new product releases at all costs. Just stick with the stuff that's a couple years old.

Unfortunately delays like this are the norm for every company with new products. And I'd rather deal with a cautious company like Skookum rather then a foolish one like Align (the 3g bugs at release were laughable. Then the delays for the updates were even worse).

Software that controls a $1000 heli needs considerable testing after changes are made to the code. The only mistake they made was being way to optimistic with their schedule. But engineers tend to do that since everything always seems easier then it really is. Ask me how I know this.

Let me know how you know this.

[BobOD]

Originally Posted by wasabro

Let me know how you know this.

I'm going to guess that OnTheSnap is an engineer because I know exactly what he's talking about. It's a clasic problem that us engineers underestimate the effort it's going to take to get a concept to work the way we envision it to.
Then, when we do try to give realistic projections, the marketing guys step in and say, "you're out of your mind!". Then you wind up spending too much time bickering over the less important aspects of a project.
As an engineer, I usually try to give as realistic a projection as is possible given the unknown and then focus on the more important task at hand....making it happen.

[cyclicopath]

Originally Posted by OnTheSnap

(snip)
Clearly you guys have not participated in cutting edge tech before. New feature delays are the norm. Hiccups happen, and a month or two delay isn't out of character for any company.
(snip)

Ignoring the inaccurate insult in the first sentence: SL is not a "new feature" in this context. It is a core feature and continues to be advertised as such by Skookum. They have been paid for it and they have now repeatedly failed to deliver per their own capricious timelines. They have also not bothered to provide any meaningful updates - if they would at least tell us exactly what's going on a lot of growing anger would be muted. Instead, we're all left to jabber at one another with speculations and gossip, with the only vaguley useful shreds of information coming from the mysterious beta testers. One wonders if the people at Skookum are sitting around with snifters of brandy and fat cigars, having a barrel of laughs reading these posts from the unwashed peasantry. Whatever, I for one am real tired of this bull***t.

[tribe3]

Originally Posted by wasabro

Let me know how you know this.

Not only engineers run into this problem. I used to make custom furniture and not only you overestimate your capacity but also if you love your job you start finding improvements on-the-go that you think your product and your clients deserve to have... That alone usually shatters your deadline.

One thing I learned is that my clients would forgive my delays but got pissed if I didn't keep them informed about them. But... I wasn't in a very competitive market so Skookum must know better about when to speak and when not to..

[cyclicopath]

Originally Posted by blade strike

1. There is more than SL in the next f/w update...

We've seen this idea now in a number of the "threads of frustration" regarding the continued failure of Skookum to repair the disabled Self Leveling feature on which much of their advertising is based (and which is the ONLY reason I bought a 720 rather than a competing unit).

We don't care if the "next" (there hasn't been a first one yet...) firmware update has features in addition to the SL repair, unless they are also repairs (and as far as is evident from Skookum's less-than-informative statements, no other such repairs are at issue). It appears that Skookum simply doesn't want the bother and expense of providing sequential firmware updates. Or maybe they think that we are so pathetic and helpless that we couldn't make it through the process more than once, or that it might mean that they would have to provide customer support (gasp!) more than once for folks needing help with the upgrade process.

Of course we don't know the real story, since Skookum simply won't tell us. But if they're holding up a repair for the sake of including altogether new features, that's flat wrong.

[blade strike]

Originally Posted by cyclicopath

We've seen this idea now in a number of the "threads of frustration" regarding the continued failure of Skookum to repair the disabled Self Leveling feature on which much of their advertising is based (and which is the ONLY reason I bought a 720 rather than a competing unit).

We don't care if the "next" (there hasn't been a first one yet...) firmware update has features in addition to the SL repair, unless they are also repairs (and as far as is evident from Skookum's less-than-informative statements, no other such repairs are at issue). It appears that Skookum simply doesn't want the bother and expense of providing sequential firmware updates. Or maybe they think that we are so pathetic and helpless that we couldn't make it through the process more than once, or that it might mean that they would have to provide customer support (gasp!) more than once for folks needing help with the upgrade process.

Of course we don't know the real story, since Skookum simply won't tell us. But if they're holding up a repair for the sake of including altogether new features, that's flat wrong.

Can I have what your smoking man? There is no mystery, they are adding in features to the f/w that is about ready to be released.

RPM logging, blur piro etc......

Please, post like this do nothing but create more rumors and false info..

[BobOD]

Originally Posted by cyclicopath

One wonders if the people at Skookum are sitting around with snifters of brandy and fat cigars, having a barrel of laughs reading these posts from the unwashed peasantry.

It's Sunday. Hopefully they are spending some time with the family.

Honestly, you have a valid point. You paid for an advertised feature that you don't have and want to put pressure on to get it resolved. That's perfectly understandable. You should take it up directly with Skookum, or better yet, the distributor you got it through. Call them. And have your mind made up what you want. If they are uncertain of exactly when they will have it (because they may not know) and that is not tollerable to you, then ask for a refund. I'd think it would be as simple as that.

Just a suggestion.

[cyclicopath]

Originally Posted by BobOD

It's Sunday. Hopefully they are spending some time with the family.

Honestly, you have a valid point. You paid for an advertised feature that you don't have and want to put pressure on to get it resolved. That's perfectly understandable. You should take it up directly with Skookum, or better yet, the distributor you got it through. Call them. And have your mind made up what you want. If they are uncertain of exactly when they will have it (because they may not know) and that is not tollerable to you, then ask for a refund. I'd think it would be as simple as that.

Just a suggestion.

Right. Except I've already contacted Skookum directly and was given a now-defunct vague timeline. And the only effective pressure is public pressure. That's what this here intra-netty thingy is good for (grin)...

[BobOD]

How true.

[OnTheSnap]

I certainly won't argue with the fact that Skookum could be doing a better job keeping the early customers in the loop. If all you wanted was self leveling for sure this has been a disappointing product launch. I'm sure Skookum is painfully aware of this and they seem to be trying their best. It may have been better to release a few intermediate revisions to stop the vultures from circling. But I can certainly appreciate their desire to squash a few more critical bugs before asking every customer to perform an update. Like I said before, if they rush something out that's broken they'll have way more egg on their face then if they just slipped another week.

[cyclicopath]

Originally Posted by blade strike

Can I have what your smoking man? There is no mystery, they are adding in features to the f/w that is about ready to be released.

RPM logging, blur piro etc......

Please, post like this do nothing but create more rumors and false info..

Ignoring (again) the insult (first we're incompetent, now we're smoking): Let's see, if I'm not mistaken you're one of the beta testers. So I guess now you're speaking for Skookum. Judging from your statement that "they are adding features" you know what's going on. But you don't provide details beyond "RPM logging, blur piro etc." That, sir, is how "rumors and false info" grow. Point to one word in my previous posts that constitutes false info (you could just as well say "lies") or promotes rumor. Then take your own advice.

Let me re-state my one and only point in a simple way that will be more difficult to obscure with more BS: A key feature of the 720 is broken/disabled. If Skookum does in fact have a fix, it is their obligation to make it available immediately, regardless of any other issues, to those who have paid for it. If they are still working on a fix, they are obligated to update their customers.

Don't misunderstand me. If I simply wanted my money back, there would be no problem getting it from HeliDirect. I'm looking forward to using what by all accounts is a brilliant piece of engineering. I'm also looking forward to any future features that might be added later. I understand that an unexpected problem arose with SL at the last moment before release (but after I paid for it, by the way). I understand that Skookum needs to be certain the fix is correct and complete. But I fail to understand why any company would leave their customers in the dark like this. Their own website still states "...we're planning to provide a firmware update for early customers by the end of April." Even "We have no clue when we'll fix this" would be better than leaving that up there, FCOL.

[xspare]

PMs accepted on fs offers for SK720.

[OnTheSnap]

[Silverexpress01]

Information no longer pertinent so I removed it

[denizcan]

Guys, nobody asks for GPS feature.. Because it is not advertised but planned feature. If Skookum said "selfleveling will be available in near future" in the documents, etc, I would hold buying. It is so advertised and people here are saying "oooh, it is fantastic" I bought the unit after reading the manual. And I do not believe "last minute bug" story, because after examining the unit I see that they didn't do any sensor fusion. Like an ordinary hobby project they just took atan of the accelerometer gives..

Try this: plug in USB connector and watch level display. Place your heli on a horizontal surface, the unit will report that heli is level.. Now, move the heli to the right. Normaly, if sensor fusion is applied (combining gyro and accelerometer data, rotation is sensed by gyro, acceleration sensed by accelerometer, accelerometer corrects gyro's drift etc.) the sensor will report moved to the right.. But watch: it will report tilted left..

Think of free fall, which way is level? Think of forward deceleration, the heli is moving forward but to slow it down you tilt backward, the accelerometer will report that the acceleration vector is close to normal, and the gyro would not level safely.. I would not trust that kind of math.. Without sensor fusion, I wouldn't flip the self leveling switch.. That's why I am selling the product to a guy that just wants a good flybarless setup, but does not care leveling..

[Tahoe Ed]

I have the 720 on my 700E and just purchased another one for my 550. I will be selling both 3G units to anyone that wants them. Just for S & G I would like to compare what has happened with Align's 3G vs the SK720. I believe that the 3G was introduced about 4 months ago as a programable FBL gyro but no computer interface available but promised. Major problems for some users with tail wag etc. They come out with 2.0 version, but unless you have a unit for exchange or go to a specific fun fly or dealer, you can't get the upgrade. The USB unit still not available. On 5/2 they announce that the USB connection is almost ready for introduction. The units appear on some store's web sites last week and it appears that they will finally ship this week. I will say upfront I am not a big fan of the 3G system. Many have had good luck with them, I have not. I purchased the SK 720 and while I would like the self-leveling, it was not and will not be a deal killer for me even though I am just a beginner. I am impressed with the integration and ease of use of the software for setup. The unit does what it is supposed to do, in my opinion, provide a stable platform to fly my heli's. I would rather have that and the promise of self leveling and GPS in the future than a unit that does not do what it is intended to do and the promise of a fix is more than 4 months in the works. I agree with those that are frustrated by the lack of communication on the part of Skookum as to their progress. I will say that Art has responded to my PM's and several of my posts here. I vote with my pocket and they have over $800 of my dollars in testament of my confidence in their system and their eventual ability to provide a superior platform in the future.

[OnTheSnap]

Originally Posted by denizcan

Guys, nobody asks for GPS feature.. Because it is not advertised but planned feature. If Skookum said "selfleveling will be available in near future" in the documents, etc, I would hold buying. It is so advertised and people here are saying "oooh, it is fantastic" I bought the unit after reading the manual. And I do not believe "last minute bug" story, because after examining the unit I see that they didn't do any sensor fusion. Like an ordinary hobby project they just took atan of the accelerometer gives..

Try this: plug in USB connector and watch level display. Place your heli on a horizontal surface, the unit will report that heli is level.. Now, move the heli to the right. Normaly, if sensor fusion is applied (combining gyro and accelerometer data, rotation is sensed by gyro, acceleration sensed by accelerometer, accelerometer corrects gyro's drift etc.) the sensor will report moved to the right.. But watch: it will report tilted left..

Think of free fall, which way is level? Think of forward deceleration, the heli is moving forward but to slow it down you tilt backward, the accelerometer will report that the acceleration vector is close to normal, and the gyro would not level safely.. I would not trust that kind of math.. Without sensor fusion, I wouldn't flip the self leveling switch.. That's why I am selling the product to a guy that just wants a good flybarless setup, but does not care leveling..

Your gyro orientation is not setup correctly. When correct the directions match.

Try the log playback. You'll see that the 720's sense of up is very accurate.