Funnels just don't get it

[hydev]

Hi,

I'm trying to learn funnels and I'm starting easy by doing them right way up and in a counter clockwise circle with the nose down and tail up.

I have watched videos and people are doing this by putting in *left* aileron. What I can't understand is why this is isn't *right* aileron? Let me explain my reasoning:

You start doing a circle in a counter clockwise manner, and you start increasing the left rudder until the nose is pointing towards the centre of the circle. At the same time you push forward on the elevator to dip the nose. Therefore what is going to make the Heli move to the left and continue round the circle? Obviously you put in aileron but why is it left not right? If the Heli was stationary you would put right aileron in to move it in that direction.

I have seen it at low speed so it can't be sheer momentum keeping it going round? Can someone help as I just don't understand it :-(

Many thanks

Mike.

[hndaluvr]

It's physically very much like an upright loop... you pull BACK not push forward right?
The same holds true here, it's just the aileron that you're pulling BACK with not the elevator.
When doing funnels you will discover that you are flying separate sick "quadrants", not just straight aileron. Funnels require a mix of both elev and ail, so this takes quite a bit of practice to get smooth consistent altitude and attitude.

The SIM is your friend on this one!

** Oh yeah... can you fly backwards yet? If not, learning backward flight helps alot with the training for funnels.
The "coordinated" "uncoordinated" stick disciplines are at play here.

[Bob O]

In a nose-down upright funnel, aileron and rudder are coordinated with the direction of the funnel. Left (CCW) uses left aileron and rudder, right uses right aileron and rudder.

Tail-down inverted funnels also have coordinated controls.

Tail-down upright and nose-down inverted funnels have "cross" or uncoordinated controls for aileron and rudder.

Keep practicing.

[hydev]

Thanks guys I have got the fact that it's left aileron and left rudder but if I'm honest I don't understand why.

I guess you don't have to understand everything in life! :-)

[Liduno]

Originally Posted by hydev

Thanks guys I have got the fact that it's left aileron and left rudder but if I'm honest I don't understand why.

I guess you don't have to understand everything in life! :-)

It's because you are going in a circle, it's almost like using elevator to climb in fff.

If you were to push in the other direction the heli would want to go in a straight line, you can do it momentarily to gain some speed and open up the size of the circle but eventually you will have to go back the other way with the stick to keep it going in a circle.

[Liduno]

Think of it another way. Imagine you were doing a big banked circle forward, you would be pulling back on the stick right? Same thing here but the heli is sideways, so instead of pulling back you are pulling to the back side of the blades.

[hydev]

Originally Posted by Liduno

Think of it another way. Imagine you were doing a big banked circle forward, you would be pulling back on the stick right? Same thing here but the heli is sideways, so instead of pulling back you are pulling to the back side of the blades.

Great! that has helped a lot. I have just got my 250 out and moved the swash plate to the positions to simulate what you suggest in banked circle. That makes perfect sense.

So when I rotate the heli through 90 degrees and the position the swashplate to me putting left aileron in I can now see how the moments of force from the down flow are playing out.

Thanks for the kicks in the right direction guys.

mike

[Rªzª]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuMvvwu9kkg[/ame]

[Bob O]

[diggyduo]

Originally Posted by Rªzª

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuMvvwu9kkg

This is both depressing given the ease it is executed and motivating to see what can be acheieved! Thanks for the vids RaZa, they are always a great tool for progressing