Photoship One FMTS

[Mapoff]

So I've been using the FMTS with really smooth results back in July. I have been dealing with a few vibrations recently. The whole time though, I've never had smooth video without using the optical stabilization. I'd like to use some prime lenses that don't have optical stabilization. I've sent emails to Photoship One with no replies. I guess he world has moved on to newer things. I'm saddened by the lack of support.

I just need to know if the vibrations I have are the best I'm going to get it. The heli is silky smooth, but rotor vibrations are appearing in the video. Mostly without optical stabilization. The vibrations are also messing with my gimbal controller.

[pc3associate]

Post video footage to analyse. Also if you have a small go pro to attach to the gimbal facing the Heli or on the Heli facing the gimbal and shoot footage simultaneous to analyze from two angles. As well as getting footage from main camera pointing towards Heli some.

[Mapoff]

Here is what I'm getting right now. This is the very best I can get. The gimbal is turned off in the first three clips. The 4th clips was just a 24p test with the gimbal on. The gimbal works great on the ground, but alot of jitter which I'm thinking is from the vibrations. If I can reduce the vibrations then I'll be happy. I'll also post a picture of the mount.

I just need some tips as far as the mount. I'm switching to flybarless which will be much easier to deal with and balance. I've had incredibly smooth video previously back in July. Something has changed and its horrible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdDR_...ature=youtu.be

[Mapoff]

Well. In my waiting for a FBL head, I put in a new head block since it was in a crash. While open I put the hard black dampeners to try something way different. Well first off the ground I saw that the tracking was off by an inch at least. I made an adjustment and wow, it sounded and flew so much better. I think the red ones were so loose or soft that the tracking always looked good because it was forgiving.

[carguy4471]

Originally Posted by Mapoff

Well. In my waiting for a FBL head, I put in a new head block since it was in a crash. While open I put the hard black dampeners to try something way different. Well first off the ground I saw that the tracking was off by an inch at least. I made an adjustment and wow, it sounded and flew so much better. I think the red ones were so loose or soft that the tracking always looked good because it was forgiving.

Blade tracking and blade balance will have a huge effect on vibration. FBL is much easier as you said.

The best thing to static AND dynamic balance your main blades. Or, balance the entire head with blades on the shaft. Either method will eliminate head vibrations. You can also balance your tail hub with blades while on the shaft. There are youtube videos for all of this stuff.

Any CP heli is a vibration nightmare. It takes some time and tinkering to find all the vibrations and eliminate them. Once you've gone through it though it is well worth the time. It sounds like you've started down the right path by getting some stiffer dampers. Going FBL will also simplify things.

[PhotoShip One]

I havent received any emails or if I have perhaps they have been snagged by spam folder. Glad I happened to hop on the HF here tonight.

There are many many things that can cause vibrations. The first obvious ones are blade balance and tracking. Then move on to main shaft and spindle runout. Tail torque tube shaft runout as well. Of all those are good check to make sure there are no air bubbles in the silicone oil dampers.

What helicopter is it? Align Trex? We have found the Trex to be among the worst to get running true. Align's manufacturing tolerances are terrible. We've seen main shaft and feathering spindles with runout as much as .008".

[Mapoff]

Actually I have footage from when I first started using the gimbal. I've never had smooth non optical stab video. With optical on I had great video. That was with bad tracking. Now with optica stab on I get jello. Before perfect, now jello.

I need to get a picture of my setup. The main question is, can I achieve smooth video without needing a lens with optical stabilization? I know there is no single answer that can be provided as an end all. I'm also willing to get a kenyon but I don't know how the forces would affect flight. I want a Phoenix as another route if it will work with the FMTS. I like the standard 3x type setup because I can put almost any camera. The brushless are more picky on balance.

The trex 700 I'm using had a huge tail buzz when I first used a gimbal and batteries on the boom. There is almost zero shaking now. Once I get rid of the flybars as a source of uneven weight ill have an easier time.

[Mapoff]

DJ. What do you think about my setup? Also the video below is with black dampers for now, and blade tracking perfect. I'm also using the F3C model with flybar. A conversion to FBL using an RJX head is on the way. The vibrations in the video are with optical stabilization off. Also the jello seems to remain the same no matter how I configure the shocks. The vibrations seem to appear like a forward/backward vibration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_D7lbFR-ls

[R_Lefebvre]

Weird to get a fore-aft vibration. Seems to me the only way you could have fore-aft vibration, without roll vibration, is if the tail rotor was the culprit. I the main rotor is the culprit, you'll always get worse roll vibration than pitch.

[Mapoff]

I finished adjusting my blade tracking today. It was so smooth I could not visibly see any movement in the frame or tail or landing skids. It was butter smooth. It didn't even shake when spooling up. Whats funny is in July my footage was incredibly smooth yet the frame and tail looked like it was going to shake apart. I was also running 1650 I thought. Now it doesn't matter what rpms its the same, but faster or slower shake.

I have a brand new V2 F3C tail, new torque tube, and went with three TT bearings. I have even tried a KDE 3rd bearing block, and that doesn't make any difference either.

I don't know what the deal is. I've moved the shocks back to the way they were back in July. I'm going FBL as soon as the parts come in. I think the flybar has been the biggest pain in the rear for my video. It flys great, but with a camera on the front, its too much to deal with.

My last thing that is different is a wider landing skid. I may try connecting both the left and right side somehow solid so there is no oscillation at all.

Any help is appreciated.

[R_Lefebvre]

Sounds like you're dealing with exactly the same problem I did.

Yeah, try stiffening up the landing skids. I didn't get to that point before I had a crash.

[Luigi_tuga]

Tall landing gears are bad for vibes, unless they are very well protected.
On a Logo 600 i've been setting up for AP, i put a Align landing gear from the 800 trekker, very stiff, no landing gear induced vibes any more.

[Mapoff]

You guys are my heroes. Ill try that. I have the 700 smooth as silk but still have video affecting vibes. I'd be done if I was just flying it.

[hareedy]

Make sure the torque tube is as straight as possible and the bearings are sitting properly on it
And you should get bocabearings the ceramic , rubber sealed for all the drive terrain
Also you might consider align aerial photography landing gear and 710 mm semi symmetrical from spin blades and 115 mm for the tail and use quick uk tail

This is how I got a smooth video
It took me a few years to figure that out
Good luck

[Mapoff]

Just to add. The torque tube is new and straight as an arrow. The biggest problem is even with everything weighed and balanced well there is a noticeable wobble in the head as if its heavier. I'm still waiting for an rjx FBL head. I'm going to see if getting rid of the flybar changes anything.

I'm using a thunder tiger 6023 landing skid. It's wider than the first one I was using. I'm probably going to go the route you talked about for everything. I've heard good things.

I do have some semi semetricals from scale flying. I've flown them but the tracking appeared way off with the. But fine with the carbon aligns. I switched back. Does anyone have thoughts on the scale flying blades? They sure flex a lot. They also don't have a grommet where the screw goes through.

[R_Lefebvre]

And, that's the same problem I had too. Everything balanced and measured for straightness, and there was still a visible wobble in the head. At this point I think it's the slop in the main shaft since all the mainshafts are cut 0.1mm undersize.

[Mapoff]

What was your fix? Do you think the FBL head will help. I keep damaging the tiny bearings on the flybar too. If you barely hit the flybar in transportation slop occurs.

You said that the landing gear helped. Mine definitely are not stiff and I'm sure they are adding some vibrations. The head definitely has a wobble.

[R_Lefebvre]

My fix was to throw it all in a ditch, set it on fire, and build a multirotor.

j/k, but I haven't fixed it, as my attempts at fiddling with it ended up causing a cash.

Honestly, I don't really think anybody has a fix. There are lots of guys giving advices, but there is not a single "knock it out of the park" solution. I basically sounds like you just keep fiddling with it until it goes away. For a while anyway.

Given the number of long-term heli users who have given up and just gone to multi-rotors, doesn't convince me that anybody has really figured it all out.

I'm still going to be working on it, but I'll be trying to find a solid solution. The main focus is going to be on the shaft. Align and most of the others cut the shaft 0.1mm undersize so that it can be assembled easily. I'm going to use industrial shafting with a tighter tolerance. Might not assemble easily and require standard shaft/bearing maintenance procedures (heat) but it's the only way as I can see it.

There's just no getting around the fact that the rotor speed of these things is at exactly the wrong frequency. It makes it extremely difficult. I have a multirotor that has *perfect* results, and I didn't even bother to balance the props.

I'm prepared to just give up on the idea of using helis for AP, leave that to multi-rotors, and then restrict helicopter usage to more "industrial" UAV type applications.

[Mapoff]

Its just sad because when I first assembled everything, the video was flawless. There was some bouncing around since its not a brushless gimbal, but there was no vibrations or jello. Something has just changed and I cannot figure it out on my life.

[pc3associate]

Would love to help you but we don't have the info to help. We need complete info on your setup, a detailed video walk around of your Heli, and a video from your gimbal looking back at the Heli (just take off, do one figure eight, then land.) Without details like that we can only help you find a needle in the haystack with our eyes closed.