Belt CP - Compatable Parts

[lex7919]

I will conceed that some of the higher amp, and some HV ones might be a bit more rugged but the ones for 450 hel's id still avoid, all the ones that ive had fail were 35-45A, its thinhgs like wire they use is of poor quality i had more connection issues with those esc's then i would ever think resonable, continually re soldering them to resolve it, if you ever see the nternals you will find the phsysical amount of solder on the circuit boards is imho insufficent, i had 2 fail from the motor wires lifting from the pcb and shorting out obviously loosened by vibration! and thats really the man issue with them, if you buy from a good shop you maybe lucky and they will replace it but most dont want to know, or accuse you of mis treatment! yes Mr Rob Carpenter of Giant CON, sorry Cod you know who you are, all i know is i spent more on them esc's then i would need to of brought a 55A Scorpon or simlar, the choice is yours at the end of the day and im just trying to show both sides of the coin before you make a decission.

[lex7919]

whoops spoke to soon,
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...79626&page=129

post 649! case in point

[B2TheEYo]

Ian is an exception.. He probably did something to it.. He's Australian after all.. LOL! Kidding man

I'm only running HW on my 500 cuz I got it free and it's working a treat so no need to buy another, hopefully this new free one delivers the same performance and reliability. Do plan to get a better one though one day.

[Flip465]

NOT my fault - NEVER is, so there ! :-D
( I'VE GOT WITNESSES TO PROVE I'M INNOCENT ! )

My ' BETTER HALF ' says its karma - something Buddhists believe in quite strongly.
She was joking with me last night about things that have happened over the last 2 - 3 years.
She told me her mother said that I'm now getting back all the evil I did to others during my army years. ;-(

Hope she's wrong !
OH - - BUGG*R ! ( goes away and sulks in the corner )

The 80A ESC that went up in smoke must have been a dud to start with.
Otherwise why would the on-line shop I purchased it from simply agree to send me another one for free without even bothering to ask for the burnt out one back for inspection ?
I only sent them on email about what happens along with a couple of close up photos.

Figure that the Spetrum AR6100 WAS my fault though. ;-(

Thought about it for a bit & probably physically stuffed it up when I was removing the double sided tape from the surface of the AR6100 after I pulled it off what was left of old ' FrankenBelt '.
Guess cutting / pulling / scraping the remains of the double sided tape off I moved / crushed / damaged something on the surface of the cct. board.
Have to learn to be a bit more gentle when handling these things.

[lex7919]

It shouldn't of damaged it doing that there are no components on that side of the board could possibly of cracked the pcb if you pulled it off a bit hard

[copterboy]

Just for the record - Blade 400 dampers compatible with belt-cp!

[runnerxc]

So I've been having issues getting the swash, washout flybar and pitch all in alignment/ level. Following Finless ccpm setup seems like the Trex setup is much better. I believe the tarot is clone of Trex. Would this head assembly be able to drop in?http://www.cnchelicopter.com/trex-45...ad-set-tl2413/
Thinking of changing the main gear and shaft all to Trex also, essentially only having the motor, boom and tail the original Esky. I appreciate any thoughts or suggestions. Thanks

[sutty]

Just for the record most of the info in here is back over 7 or 8 years, so anyones recollection may be hazy.

That having been said, I recall that the trex 450 main gear is not a drop in fit. It will not physically fit in. The tail drive gears would then not be correct, and the speed up ratio would be off. Your motor pinion would also need changing. It is a difficult mod.

There are many mods in here, some of which are more difficult than others. To know which might be appropriate for you we could do with a bit more info, and we'll try to help if we can remember.

If any of the others are still around to comment, maybe they would agree though that we all went down the route of trying to create a franken belt, and had fun doing it, but it likely would have been much more sensible to just cut the chord and get on with getting a real 450 heli, sooner than any of us did.

Some of the 450s or their clones are just amazing now and can be found for less than it would cost you to upgrade a Belt-CP until it flies well.

Then again, it depends on what you are trying to achieve and what other gear you may already have.

Cheers

Sutty

[runnerxc]

Thanks Sutty, that's what I'm afraid it will soon come too. Will just have to get it as close as I can and hope it works to get some learning flights with minimal damage if/when I crash it.

How do I get the main blade grips off the head, and can these be adjusted to achieve zero pitch when everything else is aligned?

[sutty]

Honestly it is that long since I set-up a flybarred heli, especially a Belt-CP, that I don't recall.

What I do recall is that I would have been lost without finless bob's ccpm1 & 2, amongst others by him.

I will remember enough such that if I see the head I will be able to tell you. Can you pop up a couple of shots?

I just remembered how the grips come off though. There is a nylock nut on each end of what is known as the feathering shaft. You need a socket type drivers, of appropriate size. One for each side. As you turn, one will come free, and the other will remain on the feathering shaft, since the shaft will spin in the head, preventing both being undone in the same way.

Once one nut is off, you can slide it out the other way, through the head, and then hold the feathering shaft in a wooden vice, or with some sort of protection in your pliers, to remove the last nut.

Cheers

Sutty

[runnerxc]

I finally got the pitch close to zero at mid stick, was within a half a degree. The max negative is -5 and max positive is 12 so I think something is still off. If I lower the swash will that keep the max positive and zero at mid stick or would I be back at square one.

Sutty your requested photos. Taking the blade grips off does nothing for setting pitch I quickly found out.

In all honesty what is the most replaced part on a heli (aside from the blades)

[sutty]

On the Belt-CP we replaced everything in our time, lol

The usual suspects list looks something like this.

Main blades
Tail blades
Tail shaft
Main gear
Main shaft
Feathering shaft
Tail boom
Skids
Any links, including the hoop ones, and even the short solid ones, because the eye or socket can split off the ball in a crash.
Flybar
Servo arms
Servo gear sets
Servos
Boom support rods
Frame
Horizontal fin
Vertical fin

About the only thing that seems to reliably survive a crash is the tail drive gear underneath the main gear, but even that can go, it's just rare.

Oh, most electronics often survives. Rx, ESC, Gyro or FBL, battery, etc.

As far as adjusting goes, most of us replaced the short solid links at the top with a very short adjustable link. This means you can adjust 0 without trying to juggle it all the way from the bottom.

What is it that stops you getting -12 at the bottom? Does it bottom out on the mainshaft, or is your 0 pretty much halfway, mid travel on the shaft.

If it isn't binding, and you have room for more adjustment, i.e. you were mid shaft at 0, then you can probably get more -ve by increasing the travel adjust on your pitch channel. i.e. do it electronically at the -ve end.

To do it mechanically, if you shorten the length of all your crank to swash links, then the swash will come down, and you will change your +ve pitch, and your 0 at mid stick and I can't remember how everything is adjusted.

I had forgotten just what a juggling act it all is, but a little of it is now coming back. Square washout arms, 0 pitch, equal +ve and -ve pitch, and no upper links to adjust where is connects to the grips, makes it a difficult job.

When I first saw your pictures I cringed a little at the complexity, about which I had mostly forgotten. The flybar being above the blades doesn't help either, as you have to have that hoop arrangement around the grips.

All these topics will have been discussed in the forum, somewhere, but it just goes back so long I can't remember it properly I'm afraid.

See if you can adjust it with travel adjust on pitch, and see if you can stretch it out to -12. You can probably also electronically adjust centre by adjusting sub-trim to get exactly 0 at mid stick, not that half a degree would matter too much.

If ever you get it to match, and the overall travel is too low, i.e. say you got +-10, you would adjust that by increasing your swash mix percentage. Usually the starting value is 60%, but you could up it to 70% etc, and that would give you more travel overall.

See how you get on.

[copterboy]

Wasn't the eflite blade 400 main gear the preferred drop in replacement for the belt cp? Seemed a bit stronger and ran smoother if I remember right

Not been on here for ages, good to see you still dropping in Sutty. Been wondering if you want them servos back? Seems my helis have just become shelf queens for now. Funny to see the belt forum classified in the vintage section now!

[copterboy]

Oh and another tip to Runnerxc, if your only getting -5 +12, sound like your in normal mode?

Are you using the stock tx with it? In which case you need to do the setup in idle up mode with motor disconnected. Or do you have a programmable tx? Have you checked you have a v curve for the flight mode when setting up?

[runnerxc]

Thanks guys, I have a dx6e transmitter. I've been doing all the set up in normal however the pitch curve is default set linear 0-100. Not sure I really see why it has to be idle up other than that is the linear pitch curve.

[sutty]

Hey Denis

Nice to hear from you, though sad to hear that your helis are just shelf queens now. We should have a proper catch up in the progress report.

I'd rather you were making use of the servos, but if you're not going to use them, and the heli is just going to sit there doing nothing, then I suppose you may as well send them back. All it would take for me to start using them would be one servo damaging crash I suppose.

Cheers

Sutty

[copterboy]

Originally Posted by runnerxc

Thanks guys, I have a dx6e transmitter. I've been doing all the set up in normal however the pitch curve is default set linear 0-100. Not sure I really see why it has to be idle up other than that is the linear pitch curve.

Indeed I am referring to the linear curve usually programmed into idle up mode. The stock tx didn't have a linear pitch curve in normal mode as I recall.

But I also seem to recall most people had normal mode pitch curve programmed like 40-45-50-75-100 for example. This is so you don't have too much pitch when spooling up, if I remember right. Spooling up in normal mode, you'd only be getting light on the skids after mid stick on the throttle with +3degrees of pitch, and only start spoiling up with -3 degrees pitch, not full negative

I doubt this is the root of the problem though, as your checking pitch range, and the tx is sending out a signal giving full range.

Can I ask why does the motor not spoil up? Is it disconnected or are you inadvertently using throttle hold which has its own pitch curve to program too?

[runnerxc]

I was doing both the physical disconnect of wire leads to motor as well as throttle hold. Did not even think about throttle hold having its own curve. I will look tonight at what the pitch range is without throttle hold, and adjust setup with that in mind.
Thanks!

[copterboy]

Well I just hope it leads to figuring out what's going on

[runnerxc]

Not using throttle hold I have gotten it much closer to equal + and - not sure if it was the throttle hold or just piddling around more with it. I do notice however that the flybar does not stay level on its own and have to hold it in place for all my pitch measurements (creating much more room for error/discrepancies). Is that normal? Finless videos and other setup videos I've watched the flybar appears to stay level on its own for the most part or is this just a characteristic of the stock plastic head?

Additional question regarding tail set up with computer TX and hh gyro (hk401b) I know some people love the gyro others hate. Regardless, would this be correct tail setup procedure.
Connect tail servo directly to receiver, center tail slider to allow equal rudder travel left and right ( which should give me zero pitch on tail blades correct?). Keeping the slider in place position servo on boom for 90° horn angle. Connect tail servo to gyro and gyro to receiver.
Couldn't find any tail setup videos by finless

Thanks for all the help, at the very least an learning a lot.