Kosmik telme rpm to vbar NEO for vbar governor...

[weracemo]

I have everything working and see rpm on my VControl screen from the telme but the throttle pegs max and the vbar NEO won't react to bring it down to my rpm set point at all.
Thinking it was end point cal, I enabled linear throttle pressed the kosmik reset button and waited for the double beeps then raised the stick (mode 2??) and waited for it to stop beeping or finish, cycled power and now it ramps up much better (was too fast) but still no gov control from the neo, just max.. I go back to linear throttle in the neo and the kosmik increases and decreases linear to the stick.

I had this working with a hw sensor and it flew fine...

Is the rpm supposed to be used for an external governor control and if so, does anyone have it working?

[Vinger]

Kosmik or JivePro does not support any form of FBL governor. The Telme can only be used for telemetry and logging.

[weracemo]

Originally Posted by Vinger

Kosmik or JivePro does not support any form of FBL governor. The Telme can only be used for telemetry and logging.

Thats odd they display rpm in the NEO but don't allow it to be used for governor control.

The logging part does work the same as my Mikado current sensors. Also I noticed the battery config capabilities are the same.

They seem to have dropped the ball with the rpm being unusable.

[Wh1teAfr1can]

Originally Posted by weracemo

Thats odd they display rpm in the nano but don't allow it to be used for governor control.

The logging part does work the same as my Mikado current sensors. Also I noticed the battery config capabilities are the same.

They seem to have dropped the ball with the rpm being unusable.

It was never meant to be used with the vbar governor. The Kosmik governor works as well if not better than the vbar governor.

[Vinger]

Before programming any new mode you have to do a MODE1 reset, then program the throttle mode you want, in this case mode4 . Use the wizard from the VBC to do stick programming otherwise it will not work.

Just a side-note, what is a nano?

[weracemo]

Originally Posted by Vinger

Before programming any new mode you have to do a MODE1 reset, then program the throttle mode you want, in this case mode4 . Use the wizard from the VBC to do stick programming otherwise it will not work.

Just a side-note, what is a nano?

Bahahahaha vbar neo, I'm so out of it...

Thanks Vinger, I have it working great... just put the HW sensor back on

[Vinger]

Just to make it clear again, Kosmik DOES NOT support external?FBL governor at all. You can use the HW sensor for rpm telemetry only as well.

[weracemo]

On my heli, the kosmik 200 setting is governor off (using the programmer unit).

My HW sensor goes to my vbar NEO input. My external vbar NEO governor works perfectly.

My benefits are:
-changing headspeed with my VControl
-changing governor tuning with my VControl

I prefer external fbl governors, It's a personal choice. My thoughts for this are that the governor PID loop gets tunable feed forward signals from stick and gyro loading well before the load to the governor actually occurs. It's predictive not reactive.

[GimpyGolden]

Ok you have it 'working' but only Kon unit ever to "allow" FBL Gov was HeliJive. Yours won't be as effective a Gov as Mode 4 on the Kosmik would be. To each his own.

Now, since you pulled the TelMe off and aren't using it can I buy it?

[Vinger]

Originally Posted by weracemo

On my heli, the kosmik 200 setting is governor off (using the programmer unit).

My HW sensor goes to my vbar NEO input. My external vbar NEO governor works perfectly.

My benefits are:
-changing headspeed with my VControl
-changing governor tuning with my VControl

I prefer external fbl governors, It's a personal choice. My thoughts for this are that the governor PID loop gets tunable feed forward signals from stick and gyro loading well before the load to the governor actually occurs. It's predictive not reactive.

All that is true except that Kontronik specifically warns you against the use of any form of FBL governor and IS NOT supported. The way you have it programmed WILL lead to early demise of the Kosmik as it was never designed for such quick throttle changes even in direct throttle mode.

Kontronik have one of the best governors that will and can outperform any FBL governor, try it you might just like the pure simplicity of excellence!

Statements that FBL governors know your demand for power in advance and therefore more effective is really not true. A proper implemented governor in the ESC knows exactly when the amp draw starts ramping up with load and reacts long before there are any drop in rpm and therefore it is more effective in providing power instantly and right when it is needed. Kontronik's implementation of this is what makes them the best. Changing of rpm can be adjusted even more simply in the VBC when using the Kosmik governor. No worries of PID tuning either and you will have a rock solid tail.

But each to his own and don't say you were not warned.

[weracemo]

Originally Posted by GimpyGolden

Ok you have it 'working' but only Kon unit ever to "allow" FBL Gov was HeliJive. Yours won't be as effective a Gov as Mode 4 on the Kosmik would be. To each his own.

Now, since you pulled the TelMe off and aren't using it can I buy it?

hahaha.... no, the telme is not off the heli, I use it the same as the vbar current sensor. It has all the same functions and the most important reason I need it is to tell me when to land. Flight records are just a bonus, but thanks for asking

[weracemo]

Originally Posted by Vinger

All that is true except that Kontronik specifically warns you against the use of any form of FBL governor and IS NOT supported. The way you have it programmed WILL lead to early demise of the Kosmik as it was never designed for such quick throttle changes even in direct throttle mode.

Kontronik have one of the best governors that will and can outperform any FBL governor, try it you might just like the pure simplicity of excellence!

Statements that FBL governors know your demand for power in advance and therefore more effective is really not true. A proper implemented governor in the ESC knows exactly when the amp draw starts ramping up with load and reacts long before there are any drop in rpm and therefore it is more effective in providing power instantly and right when it is needed. Kontronik's implementation of this is what makes them the best. Changing of rpm can be adjusted even more simply in the VBC when using the Kosmik governor. No worries of PID tuning either and you will have a rock solid tail.

But each to his own and don't say you were not warned.

FWIW I program Allen Bradley PLC and I use PID loops with feed forward frequently in the boiler world. I can't believe any flybarless programmer would not do the same. A quick search shows others feel the same as myself about this... see reply #3... https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=605422.

Anyway that argument can go on a long time so to each his own but what I don't understand is the last part of your statement....

"Changing of rpm can be adjusted even more simply in the VBC when using the Kosmik governor."

What do you mean???

[GimpyGolden]

That's easy, set External Gov in VBC, program Kos to M4.
Then go to governor tab in menu and set the throttle % where you need to to achieve desired RPM as seen by TelMe readout.

No curves, gain adjustments needed, just M1, M4 set % and fly.

[weracemo]

Originally Posted by GimpyGolden

That's easy, set External Gov in VBC, program Kos to M4.
Then go to governor tab in menu and set the throttle % where you need to to achieve desired RPM as seen by TelMe readout.

No curves, gain adjustments needed, just M1, M4 set % and fly.

Well that's a work around I can accept as long as the governor is as good as you all say..... so Kontronik Kosmik has a internal (mode 4) selection that is a full range adjustable SP (set point in PWM %) governor.

That is very different than using an ESC programmer and entering the RPM directly in the ESC like others require....

mmmm, I am starting to like the Kontronik Kosmik a little more now... I'll admit I was going to buy the HW200 and found the Kosmik has a higher peak amp tolerance.

FWIW at IRCHA this year the Goblin Comet prototype went down after the pilot lost orientation but we (including myself) all saw a blade stop just at the start of the bottom return portion of the Half Cuban 8. I was told by a pretty good speed pilot (who did very well last year) it was an over amp (in conjunction with the loss of orientation) which caused the stop. The Comet was running the HW200....

I went with a friend to find and buy a Goblin Speed conversion kit and the guy behind the counter said he would sell me his brand new (with his name on it which happens to be the same as mine) Kosmik and Pyro Speed combo for a great price after the event... said he was going to try speed and changed his mind...

I saved the Pyro for a 3D heli and got the X-Nova Speed... I'm waiting for the Goblin Comet and will use these electronics for it when it is available... this Heli AF will be parts for my other two or a third addition..

[jhheli]

I remember having talks with Harold about this and I remember frying my servos testing external govs (tried a lot of different motors) but the reason for not adopting external govs more importantly, holding headspeed was better with mode 4, but one thing stuck out to me he told me was, mode 4 and motor timing.

You have to set the motor timing on most other govs and in mode 4, motor timing was changed dynamically. Comparing logs and real world results to external govs became clear that most govs don't come close.

"The best timing setting does not necessarily achieve the maximum horsepower that the motor is capable of, but rather produces the maximum horsepower within the rpm range you’e most frequently using on the track"

When your rpm decreases under load the best motor timing will be applied dynamically. How sweet is that.

[mahbouni]

Originally Posted by jhheli

You have to set the motor timing on most other govs and in mode 4, motor timing was changed dynamically. Comparing logs and real world results to external govs became clear that most govs don't come close.

If you have the Bluetooth module and an Android phone you can see the timing ramp up when you punch the collective.