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700 Class Electric Helicopters 700 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar. |
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07-01-2011, 08:12 PM | #1 (permalink) |
HF Support
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Fast piro on hard punchout
Fellas I'm running the 4035-500 and 110HV controller at 90% throttle fixed endpoints.
Do I need to set up the governor to keep the tail from blowing out on hard collective inputs? Would love to know what settings you are running and still able to punch out without losing the tail. |
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07-01-2011, 08:19 PM | #2 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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I am running the 700MX 510 KV Motor and Punch R/C 120 Amp HV ESC, with a "U" shaped throttle curve and cyclic to throttle mixing and a full-sized V-Bar w/torque precomp.
RPM is very, very constant no matter what the collective/cyclic load or maneuver. Using JR 8900G tail servo and KBDD EE 104mm Tail Blades. There is no twist with full application of full throttle/collective-had to add about four points to the Torque Precomp to achieve this.
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KBDD-Team Captain, JR DFA Team Pilot. Forza 450, Forza 600N, Forza 700, Compass 6HV-U, Warp, 7HV,Knight Pro,Knight 3D, Atom, Odin II, 6HV, 3D Plus, Knight 50, Chronos, Velos, Steam 550 and 600, OMP M2 (and anything else I can get my hands on...). |
07-01-2011, 08:27 PM | #4 (permalink) |
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What gyro are you running? Tail rotor servo?
Isn't this more of a gyro / tail rotor servo / tail blade size problem than ESC? Or am I missing something?
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AMA 373608 |
07-01-2011, 08:47 PM | #5 (permalink) |
HF Support
Thread Starter
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The heli flys fine in normal flight... It is the 520 gyro and a DS20GMD tail servo... Both of which worked perfectly fine in my 600ESP in hard flight.
My issue is that in hard full collective punch outs the tail wants to blow out... which tells me the headspeed is dropping significantly enough to reduce the tails ability to hold. In FFF the tail is locked in... |
07-01-2011, 09:03 PM | #6 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
Another is that your gyro is not set high enough (or servo programmed correctly) to compensate for the full power climbout. Whether it is locked in FFF may not be directly pertinent to what you are troubleshooting. I am unfamiliar with that servo but from it's specs, it is not a real fast one. That may contribute. Is it set to 100% speed? How many volts to it? A third possibility is that you have hit the wall as far as your tail goes, and that you need bigger tail blades to get enough bite to compensate. Others find themselves in this category. That said, you are not running a hugely powerful motor, so my guess is that governor mode will help a lot. I am guessing from your OP that you have not tried that yet. 8^) If you want some help setting it up, there are great docs on CC website under support. First calibrate the throttle, then go in and set fixed RPM. Shoot for the low to mid 90s as far as % throttle is concerned (when you click the "info" button next to the three headspeeds. You can also set up a "Normal" mode to act just like a Nitro chopper, but that is not really documented. EDIT - I looked up that servo again and I was wrong - it looks pretty nice!
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AMA 373608 Last edited by K2Freak; 07-01-2011 at 10:06 PM.. |
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07-01-2011, 09:21 PM | #7 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
got to remember on 12s you are producing massive amounts of insta torque so like above either your gyro/ servos are not fast enough or your tail cannot move enough air to counter act this...... just wondering but on a full pitch punch out for say a second or so does the tail blow out and stay that way or does it blow out and come back to center?
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TRex-800E /Scorp 5035-478 5+5YY 1.8mm/VBar Blue Full 5.2Pro /CC Hv160/WR-Herc Super BEC/RJX 810mm 3D /RotoTech 115 + QuickUk Tail/ Hitec 7940th HV/TP 5000 65c |
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07-01-2011, 09:42 PM | #8 (permalink) |
HF Support
Thread Starter
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It blows out and does about three rapid piros then locks back down...
First time I have ever had this issue... I can do the exact same thing with my 700 NP and the tail holds like a surgeon... Of course I'm using a 611 gyro on that one |
07-01-2011, 10:38 PM | #9 (permalink) |
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wow lol, i am going to say that's a combo of hs drop and inadequate tail blades
the nitro tail holds because your not pumping out 8hp like the electric
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TRex-800E /Scorp 5035-478 5+5YY 1.8mm/VBar Blue Full 5.2Pro /CC Hv160/WR-Herc Super BEC/RJX 810mm 3D /RotoTech 115 + QuickUk Tail/ Hitec 7940th HV/TP 5000 65c |
07-01-2011, 10:41 PM | #10 (permalink) |
HF Support
Thread Starter
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Hey,.... not too loud my Nitro may hear you...
Well if someone can help me with setting up the governor for the "proper" HS for this thing I will give it a go in the morning... and if that isnt enough I can pick up some longer tail blades... |
07-01-2011, 10:52 PM | #11 (permalink) |
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Here is what you need:
Throttle calibration (first): http://www.castlecreations.com/suppo..._endpoints.pdf Fixed RPM config: http://www.castlecreations.com/suppo...ernor_mode.pdf If you're running standard gearing (12T, 115T) then about 2000 RPMs puts you in a good range on the ESC. (the info buttons tell you what throttle percentages at which CC estimates the ESC will be operating) It's pretty straightforward, but please post any questions that come up.
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AMA 373608 |
07-01-2011, 11:14 PM | #12 (permalink) |
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http://www.castlecreations.com/suppo...eli_files.html
their are some basic settings to in case you some how mess up what sacolvin posted, you will still need to set throttle end points tho.
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TRex-800E /Scorp 5035-478 5+5YY 1.8mm/VBar Blue Full 5.2Pro /CC Hv160/WR-Herc Super BEC/RJX 810mm 3D /RotoTech 115 + QuickUk Tail/ Hitec 7940th HV/TP 5000 65c |
07-01-2011, 11:17 PM | #13 (permalink) |
HF Support
Thread Starter
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throttle end points are set... just never used the governor with my previous setup
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07-01-2011, 11:28 PM | #14 (permalink) |
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I think the only new settings are gears, magnetic poles, and kv.
Throttle curves in TX for 3 HS are like: 0,15,30,30,30 flat 70 flat 100
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AMA 373608 |
07-02-2011, 10:14 AM | #17 (permalink) |
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do you have a link to the motor manufacture?
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TRex-800E /Scorp 5035-478 5+5YY 1.8mm/VBar Blue Full 5.2Pro /CC Hv160/WR-Herc Super BEC/RJX 810mm 3D /RotoTech 115 + QuickUk Tail/ Hitec 7940th HV/TP 5000 65c |
07-02-2011, 11:04 AM | #18 (permalink) |
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If it's this one: Scorpion HKIII-4035-500KV
Then it's got 10
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AMA 373608 |
07-03-2011, 09:00 PM | #19 (permalink) |
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Thread Starter
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Tried the governor mode... Absolutely did not like the end result of having the tail chatter back and forth rapidly.... When through just about every conceivable combination of governor gain and HS recovery and could not get the tail to stop chattering back and forth.
Changed back to fixed end points and raised the RPMs up to around 90%... Tail is holding much better, only managed to make it blow out once when going from extreme negative to extreme positive with the collective... When I got home ordered a set of 115 tail blades... I will just fly it until I get the new tail blades in then see if I can make the tail blow out with them on. |
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