Tutorial - CopterX head on Belt CP

[thion]

I have the 35mhz 6k stock radio, so I cant program it, or I dont know how.

If I leave the throttle trim at bottom. in normal flight (not idle up) I have to move throttlestick to nearly center before the engine starts, and this is the same point where the servo starts moving.

If I put the throttle trim at center, then I have to move throttlestick 1/3 from bottom to center for the same to happend.

If I put the throttletrim at top, then there is movements al the way with throttlestick.

If I reverse throttle on the radio (just to test the movements), then the servo also move the whole range no matter where the throttletrim are set.

I dont know, but this seems to be a radio program thing...?

Also when I change from normal to idle up, with throttlestick in center, and throttle trim at bottom, the pitch change.
When I do the same, switch with throttlestick at center and the trim at center, the pitch still change but less.
If a switch with throttlestick still at center, but throttletrim at top, there is no movements on the pitch or anything else.

I dont know if this is the right thread, but I started here as I got aware of this behaviour when I change my heli-head.

feel free to push me in the right direction :-)

[thion]

..followup :-)
I have i bigger computer radio for my planes. Just found out it handles helis too. Think I use this one instead so I am able to program the heli as I want. Hope that will solve the problem.

Hopefully I am able to fly again during the weekend.

So long, and thanks for all advises, learned a lot. Piloting is a lot mor fun than mechaniking :-)

[thion]

I got new mainblades today so i couldnt wait, had to try them. Tried Align first, they seemed to be balanced but the helicopter was shaking as hell so I took them of and put on Sonix carbon.
I have been able to "balance" the pitch range so I got -7 / + 8 in idle up, but just +1 / +8,5 in normal. I havent swithced radio yet.
But other than the radio /servo problem, I think I have found out what the "handling" problem was :-) I mentioned it was compared to a bus with xcopter-head and a racecar with original plastic-head.
Because of the weight, and also pitch movement in the new head compared to the old, the motor was spinning ALOT faster in hoovering. The rotorspeed and the gyro-effect of that made it more stabil and "harder" to move/turn. As I adjusted the hoveringpitch on the radio I got a more comfortable motorspeed at hovering.

So I like the new head more now than for some days ago. But I have to fly it more to now if I will keep it that way.
I have learned that just minor changes on the helicopter can make major changes in behaviour.

But I have to say, the heli flyes just fine with the plastic also. It is just different.

[copterboy]

Glad to hear you are making some progress.

I found the copterx head, more precise and less sloppy. I mean, it wouldn't jump around as much in the wind, and it seemed more precise at responding to cyclic input's. I never thought it was quicker, but I knew I could program it to be quicker cause I was learning about what the dx6i could do at the time.

It sounds like your previous pitch range had too much positive pitch and you were bogging the headspeed down, thus making the heli very unresponsive and unstable.

The higher headspeed means you are now getting more authority from collective pitch and tail pitch changes. To a certain point, the faster the blades go, the better it responds to changes in pitch.

May I ask, what is your level of flying experience? Are you doing FF in all orientations yet, or are you still learning to hover? Don't mean to offend, I just want to know how much you are pushing this bird?

[thion]

No offence taken. still got a lot to learn about theory when it comes to helicopter.
Flying skills, well, for planes I can do about whatever the plane can handle. So I am used to the similar movements in all directions.
Helicopter, simple flight in all directions other than upside down. Hovering, take of and landing in whatever direction that is natural. learned to fly with honeybee cp :-) had that one upside down a couple of times, but it did not look nice. Crasched it some time ago, and my father bought a new helicopter, think it was Valkera or something. Triggered me to buy the belt :-) and I dont regret it.
Flying models are not just a hobby, its a lifestyle.
Off topics, the Align blades was supposed to be balanced, it had a tape on the one blade too..but it was not good at all.
The carbon blades was superb, do you have any recomendations that are not so expencive?

[copterboy]

Cheers....give's me an idea of what you need it to do.

Best theory I learned about a heli is - a good setup is everything. Take your time to learn, abosorb it, go over and over things until you get it. Otherwise, it just costs money in crash repairs!!

Are you flying in idel up mode alot now? Or are you just flying in hover mode?

Have you seen bobs vids?

[thion]

I have been busy changing the radio today. I am not totaly ready yet, but I had to take a brake. twisting my head to figure out the programming.
Changing the radio got rid of the problem with throttle and pitch. Only problem for now is that the heli goes backwards when I push right stick forward.
I am shure it is a easyfix, but I got messed up in my head because I am not used to the mixing of servo.
Have an MC-19, if anyone nows where to find some numbers to put in it :-)

[copterboy]

Does your new radio have swashmix settings like a programmable tx?

If so, you should just change the swashmix setting for ELEV to the opposite of what it is now. I.e. ELEV -70% would become ELEV +70% or vice versa.

That should reverse the 3 cyclic servo's for ELEV input.

[thion]

Glad you are on to help, so easy when you know what to do.
Everything set at center and level and moving the right direction, just have to set the level 0 pitch and get the right pitch range.
I noticed that it was used the same numbers in the swashmix settings for Pitch, Ail and Elev 61% What are this for? Something I need to use?

Ahh, cant wait for the sunday to come :-) Just hope it is not as windy as it was today.

[jperkosk]

It's your swashplate mixing ratios and range. That's where you define how far and in which direction the swashplate servos move @100% of the throttle stick, in other words it defines your total collective pitch range (within the mechanical limits of your particular head, of course, otherwise you can hit the mechanical limits and bind a servo), as well as the cyclic one.

[copterboy]

Glad to hear your getting there.

You can adjust your swashmix settings to adjust mixed cyclic & pitch channels.

If you only have value's of 61% for ELEV and AILE, then you can try and increase these values to say 70% and it should make it roll and flip quicker.

I'd start off by increasing the value's to 65% first and see how it feels in the air.

In relation to PIT value, a value of 61% will give you a certain pitch range. Let's say for example, in idel-up mode -8/0/+8. If you change that swashmix value to 65%, you will find your pitch range has increased to -9/0/+9.

Also, if you do adjust these value's, you need to check that the swashplate doesn't bind when throttle/pitch and aileron/elev sticks are at full throw. So disconnect motor, or use throttle hold if you have it, and roll both sticks around on the TX, to check the swashplate isn't binding at max/minimum pitch, and with full elev & aileron throw.

You can program these value's to tweek the heli. You'll be glad you changed to a programmable TX once you get the hang of it.

[thion]

Ok, that is what I thought.
Looking forward to testfight tomorrow, and more investigation to program idle up mode...
I got a pitch range now at -5/+8,5 and -5,5/8 for the two blade.
It will do for now.

Thanks for all help and god night

[thion]

I think I have got it setup correct now, for normal flight that is. Had a smal test and lift off in my garden just now, so I am going to a more open place for more testing.
The manual of my radio Graupner Mc-19 is in german...not for me to understand....so I have to investigate further to be able to program it for idle up.
The headlock.gyro on/off was easy, but I tried to add a slider to the channel to be able to adjust gain directly - not succesful, it would not overide the butten value. Think I just dont know how to..,so I found a value that kept the tail still and put it on the button directly and disconected the slider again.
I think once the gain is set there will be no reason to adjust it directly in flight...correct?
Another thing, with the stock tx I was able to fly the heli with headlock off, but not now. It just spinns off. Do the stock tx ajust the tail servo as you move the throttle up/down?
I am able to program my new tx this way, say I add the tail servo to throttle at say...20-30%?
Just wonder....another thing, at what type of flying do you use headlock off?

[jperkosk]

You really want to get the english manual for your Tx, but basically a gain adjustment in the 0-50% range will keep the stock gyro in standard rate mode, while 50-100% is a headlock (head hold) mode.

In rate mode the gyro looks to avoid unwanted accel/decel, and the tail behaves as in the airplane, some people prefer this mode for nice looking turns.
In HH gyro tries to remember the last position and actively returns the tail to it if it gets thrown off without any rudder input.

This makes it easier to control the heli, but it screws up your turns. In aileron turn you need to keep feeding the rudder input, otherwise the tail won't turn. In HH mode your tail gets stiff and you always need to fly it, it's actually much more difficult to make a nice looking turn...

The main advantage of HH mode that it saves your ass in any weather other than perfectly still conditions, as even slight gusty wind makes it difficult to fly in the rate mode.

All that said Esky purple HH gyro is famous for being of questionable quality, I personally had 2 events when the gust of wind would make it break the headlock and spin out of control. Then after a power cycle everything was OK again. It's probably the 2nd component in order of priority to upgrade on Belt, right after Tx...

[ragge1]

http://www.graupner.de/fileadmin/dow...en/4821.GB.pdf

[copterboy]

OK, so if your setup is ok in normal mode what is your pitch range in normal mode?

Ideally you should be aiming for about -3/0/+9, so in idel-up mode you should get -9/0/+9.

What are your pitch curves and throttle curves now programmed to?

[copterboy]

Originally Posted by jperkosk

It's probably the 2nd component in order of priority to upgrade on Belt, right after ESC/servo's...

Sorry Jerry, could resist.

For most people, they can get away with the e-sky gyro when learning to hover, start FF and different orientations. It's justlimited when youget onto Faster forward flight etc.

I had 2 e-sky servo's and the ESC break on me in flight! That was 3 crashes to pay for from mechanical failure, and the gyro lasted through all of them!!

[jperkosk]

I think everyone's experience is a bit different, Denis, that's what makes this forum so valuable. I never had the Esky servo fail on me in flight (only in crash), but I had the gyro break the lock and go nuts (spinning wildly) twice in the tailwind angled gust situation, and I'm not flying hard, barely scooting around, really.

Maybe my flying style is gentle on servos, and my hometown winds that rival Chicago's (but warmer ) are especially hard on the gyro?

[thion]

I forgot to charge my tx yesterday so I only got a short liftoff, nothing like the all day of flying I was planning to. Had taken all of my equipment except my chargers...
to combine the flying with a trip to friends over the fjord.
Well, again thanks for al the help here, english manual for my tx and all :-)


I have a new question, the manual says I should setup the tx in a way that makes the heli hover about midstick. But I suppose it should be slightly above midstick, and not exactly in center?
I think I read about some that switch to idle up when they hover?
To be able to do that, hoverpoint must be slightly over midstick because idle up got 0 pitch at center, right?

[jperkosk]

Correct.