Warp Tail vibes. reasons and fixes...

[itsmillertime0]

Originally Posted by esmoglo

Must say that is what the Warp 360 tale case should look like that's a great mod...

See ya in 30 days...

[BaconRaygun]

^I'm curious to see how much that weighs. He says its lighter, but I just don't see how that is possible.

[Bob O]

Originally Posted by itsmillertime0

See ya in 30 days...

Keep it up and you'll be the one who gets time off. Stop derailing threads and bringing up past problems.

Sent from my phone

[esmoglo]

Sorry what did i do?

[SandorV]

flying with the gov off didn't change anything, it still has this very fast wag, but damn this thing fly's AWESOME apart from that. I have this s9257 clone which i'm going to try next and see what happens, I really hopes it's the servo, it just doesn't spin very nice when power is off.

[A VIKING]

Originally Posted by SandorV

flying with the gov off didn't change anything, it still has this very fast wag, but damn this thing fly's AWESOME apart from that. I have this s9257 clone which i'm going to try next and see what happens, I really hopes it's the servo, it just doesn't spin very nice when power is off.

You mentioned that the slider was butter smooth. Did you have the slider disconnected from the tail pitch change rod when checking? For my Warp 360 the plastic rod end bearings on the control rod were tight causing a very fast wag which on my maiden flight was bad enough I had to put it down off site from my helipad. Adjusting tail gain made no change.
I re-sized the bearings with the tool at both ends of the tail pitch change shaft and both tail blade pitch link bearings and the wag disapeared completly, nothing else was done still using the stock tail servo control horn dimension.
Again, don't want to see you with problems, just making sure all the bases were covered.

Viking

[Raz0rSh4rp]

I also had to size the ALL the link ends very well with the tool to get smooth movement with everything connected.

[SandorV]

Originally Posted by A VIKING

You mentioned that the slider was butter smooth. Did you have the slider disconnected from the tail pitch change rod when checking? For my Warp 360 the plastic rod end bearings on the control rod were tight causing a very fast wag which on my maiden flight was bad enough I had to put it down off site from my helipad. Adjusting tail gain made no change.
I re-sized the bearings with the tool at both ends of the tail pitch change shaft and both tail blade pitch link bearings and the wag disapeared completly, nothing else was done still using the stock tail servo control horn dimension.
Again, don't want to see you with problems, just making sure all the bases were covered.

Viking

What exactly do you mean with tail blade pitch bearings? You mean all the plastic links?

[weelee]

My tail has been solid since the first flight until now. I have 45 flights on it, and on the last flight i suddenly started to get slight vibes. Checked the tail, and the inside tail housing bearing is shot. Its still very firmly secured in the carbon frame, but the inner race moves a lot. I will change it out for a new one, but wondered if people thought it was just a weak bearing, or something else causing it to fail. Everything else seems great.
Love this heli
Cheers Lee

[frito169]

Considering the quality issues on the rest of the bird that I've had I'm assuming they don't use very good bearings. I think most people would be best served to avoid issues by replacing all the bearings before flying or do thorough pre-flight checks everytime. The thorough preflight checks you should be doing every time anyway.not that I do often but it's the right thing to do.

[Bob O]

My all-stock non-modded Warp is still going strong.

[Ah Clem]

"Checked the tail, and the inside tail housing bearing is shot. Its still very firmly secured in the carbon frame, but the inner race moves a lot. I will change it out for a new one, but wondered if people thought it was just a weak bearing, or something else causing it to fail."

Even though the instructions state otherwise, I would lubricate the bearings.

My ship has relatively low time (16 flights now), but I have lubed them from day 1.

You cannot tell if there is any lubricant in a shielded bearing, so I err on the side of caution.

You see a lot of threads about bearings (for various brands of helicopters), on the forums. Many of them about bearing life and pre-mature failures. In most cases of failure, the user has not lubed the bearings, as they assumed there was grease inside from the factory and that further lubrication might wash the existing lubricant out.

Obviously, there was little or no lubrication to begin with.

Sometimes there is some small amount of lubrication to prevent corrosion in shipping, but not enough to provide reliable, long-term service without further lubrication.

[A VIKING]

Originally Posted by SandorV

What exactly do you mean with tail blade pitch bearings? You mean all the plastic links?

In trying to figure out these amazing machines I have surmised the following through my own experiance and observations.
Anyone interrested in reading my novel that can tell me if I am on the right track I would appreciate the input and correction. I just need to know.

All the plastic ball links should be checked for absolute freedom of motion or rotation so the gyro can control the ship properly.
The gyro is a very sensitive controling device. If it's sensitivity is set to high, it is never happy and wags the tail looking for the sweet spot it can' t seem to find so we turn down the gain to calm it down.
Vibrations can cause the gyro issues as well, not really knowing what it see's for heading and attitude so it's hunt continues.
Stiff ball links cause the gyro issues as well. The gyro needs to make small heading corrections when needed. It see's that a correction is nessesary and makes the servo move to make that correction happen. It must all happen with a certain amount of fluidity, the ball links must be bind free in their motion. If you have stickey, stiff ball links, the gyro will try to make a correction happen, but now with the ball links being stiff the tail blades don't move right away, the gyro still see's the need for the correction and pushes the servo even harder to make it happen. Then the stiff ball links break free and all that pushing by the servo happens all at once kicking the tail blade pitch much farther than it needed to be and an over shoot of the heading occurs. Guess what, now the gyro has to bring the tail back and once again has to work against stiff ball links and once again on the heading correction an over shoot occurs and the wag continues.
Stiff ball links can be controled somewhat by servos that produce more torque or by changing the control horn throw which can increase or decrease servo power and control rod movement. Flying style will also determine the need for powerful servos.
The stiff ball link relationship to a wag I can replicate by installing a new ball link on my tail pitch control rod, wag comes back, but put a properly sized ball link back on, wag disapears, it's like magic.

Again, just my take on it. Anyone to correct, add discussion or insite I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
Viking

[Raz0rSh4rp]

That seems like you have a pretty good handle with what is going on with the heli, links, and gyro. Just get used to calling them "link ends" instead of "bearings" or "link bearings". I think that just can get confusing.

[weelee]

How do i lubricate sealed bearings?
Cheers

[A VIKING]

Originally Posted by SMarvin

That seems like you have a pretty good handle with what is going on with the heli, links, and gyro. Just get used to calling them "link ends" instead of "bearings" or "link bearings". I think that just can get confusing.

Thanks for the input SMarvin!
Just looked back in the manual, Warp refers to them as "ball links"... go figure.
I changed the nomenclature to reflect this, it does read better.
I'll pay better attention to keep the confusion down.

Viking

[Ah Clem]

weelee,

"How do i lubricate sealed bearings?"

There are no sealed bearings on this, or any other model helicopter that I have run into in the last four decades.

The bearings have dust shields-there is a small gap between the inner race and the shield, through which light oil or TriFlow liquid can be applied.

[weelee]

Ok thanks for that, I will get the new bearings and make sure i keep them well oiled.

[SandorV]

Well, I MAY have found the issue, there are 2 links connected with the tailgrips, if i pop one off the slider moves very easy, but i can't get movement like that with both links connected, Yet both are sized quite a bit.

[A VIKING]

Originally Posted by SandorV

Well, I MAY have found the issue, there are 2 links connected with the tailgrips, if i pop one off the slider moves very easy, but i can't get movement like that with both links connected, Yet both are sized quite a bit.

GREAT!! If the rest of your ball links in the tail control system are absolutely free, than I can say with almost certainty that what you discribed above is your issue. I had the same issue.
To smooth out the binding in those two links I actually swapped their positions on the slider. Manufacturing tollerances may work in your favor (right now they are not) in getting the freedom you need with the two pitch liks. I found that helped somewhat but it came down to disconnecting one link and moving the tail through full motion, then re-connecting it and disconnecting the opposite link and running it through. From that I could tell which had the most resistance (which equals ball link to grip ball out of alignment with both ball links hooked up) and that's the link I picked on to do MORE resizing on. That did the trick! I did end up with more play in one tail pitch ball link than the other but the ship fly's perfectly with no hint of wag or loose tail in flight...all from working with the ball links, nothing else. You could split the differance and resize both ball links equally but I just picked on one.
You do have choises, you could move the tail grip ball out to meet the position of the ball link with a small shim or washer under the ball ( I didn't do that because I didn't want to loose thread engagement with the grip) or you could remove some plastic from the pin side of the ball ink to slider attachment ( I didn't do that for worry of further alignment issues) or simply resize the tightest of the two ball links (safest and easiest), of course resizing the ball links to much and you run the risk of it coming loose in flight...that will have to be your call.
Loosen those ball links up and your problem will vanish.
Also I had to take one step futher in moving the tail rocker cup for the slider ball down to move the ball out of the cup, they were to tight also causing binding. You can see in the photo how far I went, the silver shim above the rocker is what I installed to do the job, actually it is a spacer from another ship but any shim will do, just make sure the shim only catches the inner race of the rocker bearing when installed or you'll be right back to binding again. Last install a longer rocker mounting screw with shims added so it's attached securely.
Let me know, my fingers are crossed for you and I am knocking on wood for good measure.

Viking