The dark side of the DX8

[jperkosk]

This is the problem, Jonny, something's up between HH & JR. I spent quite a few hours researching the subject, even got on a forum where Spektrum development team members are posting, and these are the facts so far:

• JR Propo will abandon DSM-based technology altogether on their home market, they're definitely moving towards DMSS which is incompatible with anything. Similar in concept to DSMx, but different enough to be incompatible.
• In the North American market JR will continue selling their TX sets through HH, and they will be supplied with DSMx, not DMSS. This refers to non-modular units, HH will NOT support any modular TXs, some technical explanation about modules not having enough pins for DSMx hardware requirements which may or may not be true.
• This will lead to two versions of JR TXs out there, so beware what you're getting. It has already started, the JR11X Zero is a modular TX with DSMJ protocol (I imagine a DMSS module will be available for it soon), while JR11X is a HH version with DSM2 protocol and is NOT modular, it has a dummy module covering integrated TX circuitry.
• It's completely unclear what JR strategy will be for the rest of the world, but I wouldn't be surprised if they start pushing DMSS, as it is their intellectual property and not Spektrum's.
• For me, the lack of backward compatibility of DMSS is a show stopper, and I haven't found enough information to even do a half decent comparison between DMSS and DSMx, but from scarce information available they seem very similar in concept.
• In the end it's no brainer: all those BNF toys out there plus a range of DSM2 RXs that I already have means I'll be sticking to DSMx (I'm in the process of replacing Futaba FASST system with Spektrum on 3 birds). I will not be replacing any DSM2 RXs that I already own, but will be getting only DSMx RXs from now on.
• Bottom line: I'm sticking with DSMx, so the TX range narrows down quickly, will have to wait a few months and decide either on DX10t or 9-11 channel HH supplied JR. DX8 is ok, but has slightly sub-par build quality, especially because we're talking >$400 TX here.

[redbird300]

Jerry, you forgot to mention that the JR 11X DSM2/DSMX transmitter is already available now, even older units can be upgraded. That's why it appeals to me.


Example of a new DSMX unit:
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...iver-No-Servos

Upgrade:
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...odID=JRP11XUPG

[Jonnyheli]

DSMX RX will make no difference if you have a DSM2 TX. Also, there's not a huge benefit with DSMX unless you live in China where DSM2 is banned and if you fly around a LOT of people.

If your getting a new TX with DSMX anyway, fair enough. But if your happy with the TX you have now, DSMX is not worth upgrading your TX for. Not telling you directly Jerry, but just saying it for everyone to know...

What you say about DMSS is true though. I was mainly pointing out the nice scroll wheel on the nice dx7 style TX. If you want to change out all your RXs for that then go for it

Jonny

EDIT: A quote from HH themselves.

The difference a DSMX system makes is only apparent when hundreds of 2.4GHz systems are in use at once.* DSM2 users who rarely, if ever, fly in big events or other exceptionally "noisy" 2.4GHz environments may find the DSM2 equipment they have now is all they will ever need.

[ragge1]

got mine back from HH yesterday , as mentioned before , I didn't have any issues with mine but send it anyway as I wasn't able to upgrade to 2.01 , removed the battery before sending it and got a new battery when it came back , they changed the PID nr. and the screen sticker ( its now DSMX ) ,

[Jonnyheli]

Ragge, did they upgrade it to DSMX for free?

Jonny

[jperkosk]

True.
As I gathered from my research most of the DSM2 JR units which are sold on American market at the moment will be offered (some already are) as DSMx, strictly as integrated non-modular TXs, so we may see a modular twin of most of them offered elsewhere with DMSS module, for which HH will NOT build DSMx modules ever, or at least that's what they're saying right now.

This is bound to unleash some confusion, so I just want everyone to be aware of it, if you get DMSS version you will be locked out of the DSM2 RXs for the foreseeable future, possibly forever.

As Jonny noticed, a new XG7 is offered in DMSS flavor only, looks like HH doesn't want it competing with DX8, so they have no plans to offer the DSMx version of it.

I wonder what JR's strategy will be for Europe? Not that it really matters all that much, you'll always be able to get whatever version you like on-line, but nevertheless it's nice if your LHS carries the exact stuff that you're using, isn't it?

[ragge1]

Originally Posted by Jonnyheli

Ragge, did they upgrade it to DSMX for free?

Jonny

yes , didn't pay for the upgrade

[jperkosk]

Originally Posted by Jonnyheli

Ragge, did they upgrade it to DSMX for free?

Jonny

DX8 upgrade is free. In fact mine has upgraded just fine by flashing it from SD card, no sending was necessary.
Other TXs are upgradeable for $75, unless you bought them after November 1st (or October 1st, can't remember the exact cutoff date) last year, then it's free.
Except DX6i and DX7, no free upgrade for those, always $75.
And except DX7SE, which is not upgradeable for technical reasons.

[jperkosk]

Originally Posted by Jonnyheli

DSMX RX will make no difference if you have a DSM2 TX. Also, there's not a huge benefit with DSMX unless you live in China where DSM2 is banned and if you fly around a LOT of people.

If your getting a new TX with DSMX anyway, fair enough. But if your happy with the TX you have now, DSMX is not worth upgrading your TX for. Not telling you directly Jerry, but just saying it for everyone to know...

What you say about DMSS is true though. I was mainly pointing out the nice scroll wheel on the nice dx7 style TX. If you want to change out all your RXs for that then go for it

Jonny

EDIT: A quote from HH themselves.

I'm a geek, Jonny, so DSMx is a medical rather than technical necessity for me: I get physically sick if I don't have the newest toy out there

[Jonnyheli]

If you can upgrade your TX to DSMX for free, then it's totally worth it, especially if you can just download the upgrade. Win win. I'm not going to bother paying $75 to upgrade though. It wont benefit me at all.

Jonny

[jperkosk]

Makes sense to me Jonny, I would do the same. DX8 is worth upgrading for 2 reasons: it's free and painless, and turns out the AR8000 is DSMx capable as well! I may get a spectrum analyzer for 2.4 GHz band just to play with DSM2 and DSMx modes!

[redbird300]

This DX8 story started to get on my nerves. Despite cleaning the pots several times, the tailkicks keep coming back with all my helis and on my DX8. And a new recent recall action from HH showed more possible problems, all of which are valid for my PID number. Even the old possible problems have never been addressed, as I never sent it in. Also broke the antenna holder, but that’s my fault.

Well, I just got the news that there are some completely revised units available by now, where all these problems should be gone. HH had enough time to find a cure by now, I guess. So I decided to send in mine for a complete check-up and pot replacement, which means it will be gone for at least a few weeks to Germany.

Simplest solution was in fact to buy a second DX8, one of the brand new and totally revised units, which I did. Transferring the settings went real quick, just copy and import the SD-card files, and you’re done, couldn’t believe it at first, but it’s perfect, trims and everything you can imagine. Tested and checked all my helis, they fly perfectly. And I already wanted a second AR8000 RX and telemetry module anyway for a future xxtreme project, so that’s money I would have spend otherwise anyway.

Gonna sell the DX7 now, or give it to my little boy perhaps and keep the old DX8 as my backup TX. Might sound crazy, but way cheaper than buying a decent compatible JR for example. Just the price of a new DX8 without TX/telemetrie, minus perhaps the second hand price of a DX7, that’s not too bad for a (hopefully) permanent solution, and with the comfort of having 2 identical TXs now, where switching TXs takes only a few minutes for each heli, without the usual re-setup hassle.

[ragge1]

mine have worked fine since I got it , had to send it in for the 2,01 software update , but not gonna send it this time as I have to send it to the US and the last recall just gonna ignore it as I just got the AR6110 rx on a 250 copterx that I really don't like flying ( might just bind it to my DX7 ).
broke two switched few weeks ago , my fault , working on the heli with the blades on and accidently was on the flyte mode switch , easy fix , new switches from a local shop and good as new

[jperkosk]

Decided to do the same as you, Raf, by far the cheapest option: got a second DX8 from a newest batch from LHS here in Mexico, and will send the original one through them to HH for all the upgrades (although the only problem I had was two long top switches, which was really my fault). DX10t got pushed back again for like 4th time, this time is scheduled to be released in early December, so I just gave up on it. My son is visiting for summer vacation, so we can use two TXs anyway, and then I will send the old one out.



There is a promotion going on right now, all DX8s bought in LHS come with an extra AR8000 (total of 2 in the box), so it actually offsets the markup that LHS charges me compared to online prices :



One immediate observation: the buzzer on the new DX8 is WAY louder!!!

[jperkosk]

Now here comes a really dark side of DX8:



As HH is accepting preorders now, I find myself drooling and hands won't stop shaking hovering over the "PREORDER" button . It's a very ugly button, white letters on the yellow background, truly some clueless nerd's rendering of aesthetic attraction. VERY ugly button, Jerry. VERY UGLY, damned !!!

[copterboy]

lol...in that case I just joined the dark side. Not the really dark side, just the normal dark side

Just confirmed I'm getting a BNIB 2nd hand DX8, so saved £50 off RRP. Includes 2 extra receivers and telemetry. Should arrive by end of next week.

[Luke Warmwater]

DX8s seem to have plummeted in price here in the UK...even since Christmas! I bought a DX7s back then and looking at DX8 prices now, I wish I'd waited....it would have only cost me about £10 more now!!

[jperkosk]

That's the natural way of things, Luke. The reason also tells me (or it's trying to, anyway) that I won't really need a DX18 for anything at all ever and if I wait another year or so the price will plummet, but the alter ego is countering immediately:

• It is clear after Andy's tests that TXs are non waterproof so drooling can possibly damage a DX8 that I could otherwise sell to offset the acquisition cost (I have two, one brand new one in the box as HH replaced my original one sent for update under the warranty with a brand new one)
• Hand shaking can easily result in a nasty crash

[ragge1]

Jerry , sell those two DX8 and buy the DX18

[jperkosk]

Can't do that, I'm afraid, I need one backup unit. It takes sometimes awfully long time to get things done from Mexico.

I sent the original DX8 for warranty upgrade end of July 2011 to HH distributor in Guadalajara. I have just received it back (I haven't physically seen it yet as I'm on a job in Chile till the end of the month, Mrs. P. showed me the box on Skype), but at least they were decent enough to send a brand new unit in the box, so I probably got a free telemetry unit and a receiver for the ordeal

So now that I have a brand new unit in the box I think I'll sell it and that's about half way towards the price of DX18 Sounds like a plan is forming here...