Changing 600Pro Tail Gear Ratio

[matchbox]

Do you guys that are using the 105 blades, finding that you have to be a little more carefull on auto's, so as not to touch the tail blades on the ground and risk braking the front gears.

[Helico-pteron]

Originally Posted by matchbox

Do you guys that are using the 105 blades, finding that you have to be a little more carefull on auto's, so as not to touch the tail blades on the ground and risk braking the front gears.

If you want the heli to sit higher, replace the landing struts with standard 700 struts instead of the 700 FC3 struts the kit comes with.

[matchbox]

Na, i want to keep it as low as stock. I just ment the 105mm tail blade sits as low as the vertical fin and touchs the ground if we are not carefull when landing.

[Helico-pteron]

Originally Posted by matchbox

Na, i want to keep it as low as stock. I just ment the 105mm tail blade sits as low as the vertical fin and touchs the ground if we are not carefull when landing.

Put a 700 fin on then...

[matchbox]

Thats another option! Might have to order one.

[Nko15]

Small note: The modulus int he startpost arent right..

New gears mod 0.8, old gears mod 0.6. not the respectively 0.7 and 0.5!

[OnTheSnap]

Originally Posted by Nko15

Small note: The modulus int he startpost arent right..

New gears mod 0.8, old gears mod 0.6. not the respectively 0.7 and 0.5!

Fixed.

[Dino Spadaccini]

On the snap why must you just rip Align, this is a pro heli design to run at 2400 on the head if you are not comfortable with that i understand.

I have stood with a local field rep Roman and watched him fly the Pro 600 at 2400 on the head with no problems good collective mgn, You keep stating that this is what you dont like and i see that you are a Grand Rc pilot i have to say does Ed condone this type of harsh conduce on HF against Align.

As you stated in passed post that you have found a personal setup that worked for you i still am not sure why you must bash Align on this subject. The 600 pro is what it states a pro version designed for the ground up, there is no other heli on the 600 range in its prefromance range

[OnTheSnap]

Originally Posted by Dino Spadaccini

On the snap why must you just rip Align, this is a pro heli design to run at 2400 on the head if you are not comfortable with that i understand.

I have stood with a local field rep Roman and watched him fly the Pro 600 at 2400 on the head with no problems good collective mgn, You keep stating that this is what you dont like and i see that you are a Grand Rc pilot i have to say does Ed condone this type of harsh conduce on HF against Align.

As you stated in passed post that you have found a personal setup that worked for you i still am not sure why you must bash Align on this subject. The 600 pro is what it states a pro version designed for the ground up, there is no other heli on the 600 range in its prefromance range

Rip Align? Harsh conduct? Seriously? Is disagreeing with a design element in a model "ripping" or being "harsh"?

Sorry Dino, I guess we don't see eye to eye here. I don't see how my posts are anti-Align in anyway. It's obvious I disagree with the proposed headspeed, and instead of just complaining about it I found (and tested) a solution that has made me and many other pilots happy with the machine. In fact we have 2 solutions with the tail gear ratio change or running 105's.

This forum is about sharing information and helping people. I found something in the Pro that didn't work for me and 99% of the pilots that use these forums apparently agree that 2500 headspeed is comical at best. Most of the world that cares about performance runs a governor and gets optimum performance and run-time from their machines. If they choose to run 2500 instead of a governor to get the same result but with greater wear on the model and significantly less flight time, well that's great. But there are better solutions. And it turns out the included ESC is capable of such a solution. All the better.

And apparently all the Pro's winning competitions with 600mm machines agree with me as well. So I 'm not too sure where the "pro" argument weighs in on this? It's just a classic fixed end point vs governor debate. Align has always been a fixed end point company. Which in this case worked in our favor since we have the perfect amount of gearing overhead to run 2250 XFC championship headspeeds.

Anyway, I'm not sure what triggered this angry post from you? Was it something in particular I posted, or just the fact that you found a sticky in the Pro forum suggesting a modification you don't like?

[CeeveeSiN]

Wow Dino,
not sure what to say there..
I agree 110% with OTS..
No one here in Houston ( not even the local Align rep) wants to run their new "pro" at that kind of head speed either..
its absolutely insane for Align to think the "AVERAGE" pilot wants to run their bird at that kind of speed for so little of a benefit.

The Pro is a great aircraft.. but Align seriously misjudged what the average joe pilot wants out of an Electric 600.

2250 is plenty fast and ballistic and gives a perfect balance of power/agility and flight time.

not to mention safer limits..
there are still no 600 blades out there certified at that speed period.. not to mention how much force a bird hitting the ground with that kinda headspeed is going to do to components.

Think you should apologize to OTS.. he loves the new bird and is doing nothing but trying to help others get more enjoyment out of their 600s as well.

[Dino Spadaccini]

On the snap as you said its a public forum and if your comments and fixes for something you think is right well so be it. But you still are a pilot for Grand Rc which is an Align Dist and Retailer if you feel you are helping try and look at from a Corp point of view.

Are you helping or are you being harsh and over critical to the point that you are picking apart the hard work of a man that has spent thousands of hours try to bring the next level of helis to the end-users. So you have your opinion and i have mine and lets not forget its only a few years ago the pilots where taking the 600 E on 10s and pushing the head-speeds to 2300 at that point the tails where geared to high for the this which was stated in your original post by a end-user.

So i ask you why are you so critical and lets not forget the heli used by jaime was designed to run at 2200. the new pro bench mark is 2400 to 2500 if you are looking for long run time then you need to change your setup. the pro out of the box is what it is a new heli pushing the limits if you feel that your limits aren't there thats fine no reason the carry on about running 105 tails and chancing crown gears etc etc

[Helico-pteron]

Originally Posted by Dino Spadaccini

On the snap why must you just rip Align, this is a pro heli design to run at 2400 on the head if you are not comfortable with that i understand.

I have stood with a local field rep Roman and watched him fly the Pro 600 at 2400 on the head with no problems good collective mgn, You keep stating that this is what you dont like and i see that you are a Grand Rc pilot i have to say does Ed condone this type of harsh conduce on HF against Align.

As you stated in passed post that you have found a personal setup that worked for you i still am not sure why you must bash Align on this subject. The 600 pro is what it states a pro version designed for the ground up, there is no other heli on the 600 range in its prefromance range

Easy tiger, OTS has valid points and not one time did he "rip" Align.

[OnTheSnap]

Originally Posted by Dino Spadaccini

On the snap as you said its a public forum and if your comments and fixes for something you think is right well so be it. But you still are a pilot for Grand Rc which is an Align Dist and Retailer if you feel you are helping try and look at from a Corp point of view.

Are you helping or are you being harsh and over critical to the point that you are picking apart the hard work of a man that has spent thousands of hours try to bring the next level of helis to the end-users. So you have your opinion and i have mine and lets not forget its only a few years ago the pilots where taking the 600 E on 10s and pushing the head-speeds to 2300 at that point the tails where geared to high for the this which was stated in your original post by a end-user.

So i ask you why are you so critical and lets not forget the heli used by jaime was designed to run at 2200. the new pro bench mark is 2400 to 2500 if you are looking for long run time then you need to change your setup. the pro out of the box is what it is a new heli pushing the limits if you feel that your limits aren't there thats fine no reason the carry on about running 105 tails and chancing crown gears etc etc

Hi Dino,
Lets just agree to disagree on this one. If anything, I think I'm helping Align in a very big way. I'm sorry you disagree with that.

Every end user that stepped into this model without knowledge of the tail gear ratio change would have the expectation that the tail would hold like any other model at accepted head speed ranges. In my case this assumption caused me to dump it hard in the first week flying it. I decided to translate my experience into some helpful advice for the other end users to try and prevent the same outcome for them.

"picking apart the hard work of a man that has spent thousands of hours try to bring the next level of helis to the end-users". This comment upsets me quite deeply. I've stated many times how much I like and enjoy this model after getting the tail under control. My own career is an Electrical Engineer going on 15 years now. I have made errors on some of these products and had to spin them after production. Not once did I get upset if an end user pointed out a bug in the design to me. Rather I was grateful for it since it allowed me to make the design better. I truly hope these are not the words of the 600 pro designer. It's a wonderful machine. Does it have some faults? Sure. As do all products. Can we work around them? Sure we can.

[Dino Spadaccini]

On the Snap just me when i say that your words are stinging the designer of the heli, I have a direct link back the Align Corp. Yes we will agree to disagree that is fine, i understand your points. There is one thing you are missing its a culturally point if you understand this then you will understand my points here.

Dino

[OnTheSnap]

Originally Posted by Dino Spadaccini

On the Snap just me when i say that your words are stinging the designer of the heli, I have a direct link back the Align Corp. Yes we will agree to disagree that is fine, i understand your points. There is one thing you are missing its a culturally point if you understand this then you will understand my points here.

Dino

Sorry to hear he's taking it personally. But looking at the situation we have on the Pro I think it was likely inevitable that it would become a heated debate. As most deviations from accepted standards often are until they are understood and accepted.

Here's another perspective - Perhaps the 600Pro design is perfect for markets in Asia. But in the US/Europe maybe it missed the mark a little bit with the high head speed approach. This may be "in fashion" within the top pilot circle in Taiwan, but not in other markets. Just my own speculation based on your statements. In the US and Europe the past few years have seen a strong move to governors that produce astounding performance (Kontronik in Europe, Castle in the USA). Prior to the advent of such technology, we relied on high discharge packs that were better able to hold their voltage. This also required higher head speeds to mitigate the impact of voltage sag and bogging since the ESC did nothing to counter it.

In 2011, we have wonderful governors now, including a pretty decent governor integrated in the Castle ESC that ships with the Pro. This software tells the end user that 2350 or so is the max headspeed that can be governed with the Pro's motor and gearing. With 2200-2250 nearly in every pro 600mm video, it was only natural for end users to enable the governor and target headspeeds in this range. In doing so the tail gear ratio becomes an issue.

Looking in these forums, nearly every user with a Castle ESC uses governor mode. Looking back to previous Align models, an Align ESC was included that was never run in governor mode in practice since it did not perform too well (so I hear. Never tried it myself). Every model that Align shipped always suggested that the users use fixed end points and not governor mode. So it seems the fundamental marketing issue is the age old fixed end points vs governor debate. Which is further complicated by the fact that an ESC with a strong governor and simple GUI software to enable it is included with the model.

So the end result of all this is the end users (us) making a $27 modification by adding 105mm tail blades, or simply swapping out the auto/tail gears. Not at all a big deal and certainly not an issue that would turn anyone off the model as far as I can tell. By doing this we can make use of the included Castle ESC governor thereby gaining flight time and performance.

In the end it's a win for both Align and the customer. We get a quality ESC with governor, the correct gear ratio to fully utilize it (Align targeting 2500 gave us the perfect overhead to do this), and the knowledge to modify the tail on the model to support the change.

[raptor50luvver]

Well thats the last Align heli i will ever be buying due to Dinos comments that are obviously the comments of Align corp.

My first 600 Pro blew up inflight(boomstrike for no reason) but i purchased a second one which i have not built yet as i also bought a Logo 600 that flies great by the way at 2000 to 2200 max on the head.

I was waiting to get the revised auto gear and KDE engine mount before i built the replacement 600E Pro but you know what,i am gonna sell it now as its obvioulsly a PRO machine and not for normal fliers.

Pity Align didnt tell us this first as i wouldnt have touched a 600 pro with a barge pole.As for the designer,what idiot designed in such a high headspeed when most blades including Align ones are not rated that fast!!!

[CeeveeSiN]

Yeh I must agree.. Dino just damaged my view of Align far more than ANY one else including failures ever have.. I've had Many Align helis over the years..
and have never seen a so called Pro pilot come to a forum and bash a rep and users for making the heli more usable for them.

this is over the line.. Dino you are making your company look very very bad..
OTS is behaving like and adult and stating valid points and helping sell Align helicopters.... you are not.

[Helico-pteron]

A message has already been sent to Align Corp about Dino and his comments. I would be very weary about having someone like him representing my company.

Let's move on and get back on topic.

[OnTheSnap]

Wow, the site just pulled this from being a sticky. That's unfortunate, since I really think this is information every 600pro owner should know about.

If any other users care, send a PM to one of the admins to get it re-instated as a sticky.

[smaze17]

Dino - you still haven't addressed the issue of the blades not being approved for the 2500 HS you say the Pro should be run at. How can we run 2500 if the blades that come with the heli aren't approved for that HS????

S