Lockout/Brownout Problems - Static is a #1 issue

[ChasHeliCop]

Oh I forgot, I also got the metal main bearing blocks in this weekend, so I will do that if the problem is not resolved with the metal tail.

[rockjock3]

I am new here and have been learning a lot about my new hobby. I have a few questions/observations that might seem naive, but will ask them because I cannot find the answer.

1. For anybody experiencing this problem, did you ever look at our larger cousins to see if they have the same/similar problem and what they did?

--Real Helis do (as well as all aircraft). They both use static wicks quite similar to the ones that g-force sells through rcheli.com.

2. The static they build up is from the movement through the air of the blades/rotors/wing surfaces.

3. Could the static in the belt simply be the tail static moving down the heli and into the main body of the heli?

Follow me for a minute on #3.
I can rub a ballon against silk and it holds a pretty good static charge (rubber). Spraying the belt eliminates the charge, but doesn't stop the charge build-up on the rotors I suspect. Plastic and rubber can be a good conductor of static electricity (build up charges all the time with rubber soled shoes, balloons, plastic combs, etc. Could the charge you are getting on the boom simply a result of the static charge from the rotors building up and then flowing down the boom to try and find a ground? If so then there is really no need to ground/sand, drill, screw and otherwise modify the tail/boom. Simply get a wick and solve the problem so that you don't have to do the modification every time you bust a part in your tail.

Like I said in the beginning. I am just wondering if there is an easier way to solve a problem that already exists with an existing proven method. We could then spend our efforts on trying to get a G-force to realize that if they continue to sell those wicks for $27 that we will simply come up with a way to make them ourselves for $3-5.

---After looking at several websites on aircraft/helicopter static wicks I wouldn't think that would to hard for one of us to do.

--P.S. I would like to note how I agree with several that it is really cool that as a group of consumers, especially in a hobby like this, the manufactures cannot rely on us blindly using all that they sell. Most of us that get into hobbies like this are natural tinkerers. Two thumbs up for all the testing so far. Very cool.

[raptorz499]

Soooooooo, is there yet to be a definitive answer about the placement of the receiver in relation to the brownout issues? Or maybe not so much the receiver, but the satellite for those running the 2.4 setup?

[fireup]

Originally Posted by Finless

Socal500, Kevin, etc in the OC area.

Today should be a good day to test for static here. In the OC we are having DRY Santa Ana winds rolling in from the desert right now. Perfect static test conditions

Bob

Got the electrostatic meter in and was only able to get a couple shots at testing before the battery on my camera went dead.

The testing show something interesting... the gears and boom builds up a negative charge while the tail blades builds up a positive charge. And even after the heli stops spinning, the charge is still there on the gear and tail blades until I rub them with my hands.

[Socal500]

Cool.. First thing I would like to see is without the tail rotor attached at all.. just belt and shaft spinning.

[ChasHeliCop]

Kevin, you are awesome dude. you just positively without a doubt proved the VDG effect. And what you described is exactly how the charges are concentrated. I just finished putting the metal tail on after sanding the boom and inside of the tail. I am not getting a reading from the tail now, but I am getting something around the gears and the boom block. I think since the metal tail is OPEN, it's not allowing the charge to concentrate. I am going to cut the side out of the stock tail piece to see if it has the same effect. Nice effect there also, showing the AC voltage meter in correlation to the static meter.





http://science.howstuffworks.com/vdg4.htm

[Socal500]

Exactly... and so by changing the belt material, if they ever do, you eliminate the source.

[ChasHeliCop]

OR.... changing the rollers / gears. Look at the link below the VDG above, it talks about concentrating the charge.

[PTFlyer]

Originally Posted by ChasHeliCop

I think since the metal tail is OPEN, it's not allowing the charge to concentrate. I am going to cut the side out of the stock tail piece to see if it has the same effect. Nice effect there also, showing the AC voltage meter in correlation to the static meter.





http://science.howstuffworks.com/vdg4.htm

"Constructing the Generator"


"Here are the initial steps:

Mount the lower roller to the motor shaft.
Mount the lower brush assembly to the motor housing.
Enclose the lower unit.

Do not use wood for the enclosure: Wood is easy to work with, but it does absorb moisture from the air, which can adversely effect the Van de Graaff generator. Make the case from plastic -- Plexiglas from a hardware store works well. Remember to leave access to set the belt to your roller and to leave an opening at the top to route the belt to the top roller."

SO it seems that the inclosed tail case might just be adding to the effect as it states in "how to build" that you should use an inclosed lower unit....which in this case would be the tail case.....

[HeliBurns]

Kevin, they mentioned that on the "Van De Graff" site.....I'm not gonna ground that, too much heat...

On a lighter note, just got a Dell XPS and the oscilloscope/spectrum analyzer......I'd be happy to assist ya'll...now....since we seem to be equiping ourselves with perhaps test instruments whose specs exceed those of even.........

[Astennu]

Nice find. So now we have to find a solution to discharge the blades in flight and the maingears ? or am i missing something here ?

[mk1spitfire]

Kevin, what was the voltage measured, in different locations on the airframe?

Your light probe did not light when you placed near tail? Boom,gears did?

I read in the pdf manual that it mesured pos/neg charge which is why I commented on before on wether grounding the frame could damge the battery as a pos charge developed could leak into cells? Just a crazy thought.

[ChasHeliCop]

Ok, I did two things this time, the first video is after sanding down the boom and installing a metal tail case upgrade. The second video and picture is grinding down the boom stop to get it away from the belt.

Trex 500 Metal Tail Case (1 min 39 sec)

Trex 500 Boom Stop Mod (1 min 18 sec)

[heliboy88]

Hi Chas,

In your second video, i can still see the static charge in the middle of the boom, does that mean the belt is rubbing inside the boom? Can we just run a wire from the boom to the frame to eliminate the problem?

[ChasHeliCop]

Hey Heliboy,

I don't know yet, I am trying to come up with solutions that do not involve running wires, grounding the frame to the ESC, etc. The key point to the second video, is comparing it to the first. If you watch as the voltage detector passes over the boom block area, the static dissipates then picks back up at the boom. Additionally, after the boom stop mod, the static does not go as far down the boom. Not a complete fix by any means, but it's progress.

Main metal bearing blocks next...

[heliboy88]

Hi Chas,

Thanks a lot for the nice works and testings, and pls keep us freaks posted what you find out. If we can really do simple mod without running wires it'll be so great.

[mk1spitfire]

It apears some of the static is postively and negatively charged according to Kevins meter.

A static wick dissapates static from the airframe into the atmosphere.

In order to do this, what polarity charge should it be? Or can both types be expelled?


Mk1

[jared_of_atlanta]

I took physics 2 last summer so I'm no expert but...It's pulling electrons (negatively charged) from the tail blade area and the electrons are building up on the boom area. So the tail blade area becomes positively charged and the boom becomes negatively charged. The static wick expells the electrons (negatively charged) into the atmosphere. The sharp point makes it easier for the electrons to bleed into the atmosphere (just like lightning rods/arrestors).

[mk1spitfire]

Originally Posted by jared_of_atlanta

I took physics 2 last summer so I'm no expert but...It's pulling electrons (negatively charged) from the tail blade area and the electrons are building up on the boom area. So the tail blade area becomes positively charged and the boom becomes negatively charged. The static wick expells the electrons (negatively charged) into the atmosphere. The sharp point makes it easier for the electrons to bleed into the atmosphere (just like lightning rods/arrestors).

If the negative energy that some feel about brownouts were to be realeased into the atsmosphere would this repel the negative electrons emitted via the static wick?

[raylepper]

Originally Posted by mk1spitfire

If the negative energy that some feel about brownouts were to be realeased into the atsmosphere would this repel the negative electrons emitted via the static wick?

Makes perfect sense. Alternatively, if one maintains an extremely positive attitude while flying the excess negative charge on the heli will be absorbed, thus resulting in a stable flight.