elevator kick

[mak24seven]

I have just got in from the pub with curtis and the only problem left to deal with in the softwear is auto kahos, it can do several but on the 5th it goes a bit pear shaped, i;ve allso put a little option in the new firmware to complete inverted backward circuits hands off so hang in there guys its looking good , how i dream lol. I may just may try that vbar thingy for my rex 500 .

[nwmtech]

Originally Posted by CRITEX

All you guys are spot on with your comments. I think if Curtis would personally issue a press release stating some issues exist and will be addressed by a certain date stating somewhat specifically what the issues are. If Curtis would make a public promise to not only fix the firmware but relaunch the software interface, I believe I for one and all of us in general would see that as a stand up guy doing the right thing and I would hang by him til hell froze.

+1. I find it funny that companies avoid posting known problems like the plauge yet 90% of customers are understanding of issues as long as they're made aware. I'm like you... I will actually be MORE loyal to a company that makes a mistake if they're upfront about it and do their best to make it right.

[nwmtech]

[quote=mak24seven;2456307 I may just may try that vbar thingy for my rex 500 .[/quote]

VBar on a Trex 500? RTOFL!!!! Good luck with that. You might as well add an extra 3 torque tube bearings and completely and throroughly wrap the heli in bubble wrap. Oh yeah, but before you wrap it you'll need to remove the top of the the blueline mini and fix the board from rattling around. Then... and only then.... it MIGHT have the vibe levels down enough to fly well.

Don't get me wrong, I think VBar is awesome (I have owned and flown it plenty) and if I had a Logo it would be the ONLY FBL unit that went on it but just because it works on one heli doesn't always mean it will work good on all. The grass is always greener on the other side.

[mak24seven]

Well! i geniunely didn't no that about the vbar , to be honest i'm more than happy with my total g, allthough i'm only an average flyer so i doubt i will notice any difference when the new firmware comes out , Just out of interest is it just the flat piro's people are waiting for and if so is there really a fbl unit out there at the moment that can do that and still fly well in all other aspects ?

[nwmtech]

Originally Posted by mak24seven

Well! i geniunely didn't no that about the vbar , to be honest i'm more than happy with my total g, allthough i'm only an average flyer so i doubt i will notice any difference when the new firmware comes out , Just out of interest is it just the flat piro's people are waiting for and if so is there really a fbl unit out there at the moment that can do that and still fly well in all other aspects ?

Lots of folks have been fighting vibe issues on the 500 with the TT setups and FBL units. Kind-of nature of the beast sort of a thing.

I'll try and give the best explanation on the scoop of the whole piro thing. One of the cool parts of a FBL unit is that because the elevator and aileron is controlled by gyros it can have a head holding effect just like a tail. So lets say you're booking down the run way with a FBL system. You give a little forward elevator to get the heli moving and the gyros hold that attitude and the heli locks in with no additional stick movement to keep it there. Your swash is tilted a bit forward even though you've let off the sticks because the gyros are holding it there. Now... if you throw a 180* piro in there with ONLY rudder movement the gyros will actually "roll" the swash plate as the tail is coming around and in the end your swash will be tilting backwards to maintain that same exact attitude you were before. This relationship is called piro compensation. It's one of the things that makes FBL systems so cool. If you translate that into a hover or knife edge orientation and you're perfectly level or perfectly knife edge the FBL unit will maintain that perfectly flat piro. So yes, numerous FBL systems are capable of that and do it quite well.

Here's where it gets tricky though. One of the biggest complaint among skilled pilots and FBL systems is how they feel in piro AND cyclic combined maneuvers such as a piro-flip, piro loop, piro circuits, etc. Basically do to a piro flip you have to maintain a constant piro AND stir a circle with the cyclic in the opposite direction. Since flybar helis do NOT have a gyro controlling the head they have a certain "flow" to them during these maneuvers. It's a very graceful and fluid-like feel to it. Kind-of like once you get it going it just wants to keep doing it sort of thing. A FBL heli is a totally different story. You see that same wonderful piro compensation that makes those flat piros wants to "fight" the head holding aspect of the head gyros. This makes piro flips feel a bit more clunky and less fluid. Whats so cool about the TotalG is that Curtis was able to capture that "flybar" feeling during piro maneuvers and apply it to the TotalG (only system I've heard of that has indeed captured that feeling). The negative effect is that piros were not perfectly flat like a lot of folks expected them to be being that it was a FBL system.

In working on the new firmware Curtis found that combining these two feelings is a lot harder than expected and thus why it's taking so much longer than anticipated. Lets be honest here... if it wasn't that hard then Mikado would have nailed it already (which they haven't). Hope that makes a little bit of sense.

[mak24seven]

Wow. Thanks for taking the time out to explain the bones of it , even for my lack of understanding the explaintion you gave was superb, it seems to me the main problem hear is we have to types of flyer, the sports flyer come throw a few tricks ( me) who would love a flat piro and the expert who is fighting the gyros on most moves, if i have that correct then would that mean it virtually impossible to design a unit that serves both and indeed suggest that the pro would not benifit from a fbl unit in the 1st place .

[nwmtech]

Well... it's not as bad as maybe I made it sound. Take Kyle Dahl for example. He rocks the snot out of the VBar so it's not really a "bad" feeling it's just a lot different that's all. For pilots who have been rocking flybars for a LONG time it's just an unfamiliar feeling. There's no doubt in my opinion that FBL is the way of the future and as the units develop they'll get better and better. Curtis seems to thing he's nailed the benefits of both in the new firmware. Only time will tell....

[kevinator9]

Wow very informative nwmtech! Thanks for the explaination!

[CRITEX]

I really don't have a problem adapting to "dead on piroflips" feeling although it is weird. I have a problem with the elevator bobble on hard stops. This bobble is really quite evident on my 700N but not to bad on my Gaui X5. All in all the Total G is a killer set-up and I am confident that in time it will rock. Question is how much time?

[nwmtech]

See maybe it's just too long since I've flown a flybar but the TotalG is WAY easier to do piroflips than vbar. Granted it might not be exactly like a flybar but it's a heck of a lot closer. Especially if you keep the FC gain down in the low 50's.

[CRITEX]

I don't see it as a question of harder or easier it's just different. Flybarless is what I call dead or static in that it only does what it's told. In between inputs it's essentially dead. I think it's this dead feel that so many flybar guys can't adapt to.

[nwmtech]

Agreed!