Helicommand Rigid - my take on it so far

[Heli Paramedic]

Hi TomC,

Thanks for your quick reply.

I've had some pretty good success so far on my 3rd test flight. Autotrim function is working perfectly using the gear switch. Just hold a steady hover manually for about 8 seconds then flick the switch up then down in about 1 second. Heli is then trimmed beautifully in pitch and roll axis. Only draw back is that I can't adjust tail gyro gain automatically now from the transmitter. Have to use the pc adapter between flights for that. This is not an issue for me as I'm only into sport flying with a view towards scale soon.

Only issue I need to resolve now is a slight drift on the tail. Is it best to use transmitter trim or adjust mechanically to get rid of the drift?

I have another question about the software. On the 'hor + pos' tab there is a setting for pilot channel default. Mine is set to 70 (default setting). Does this mean that if my transmitter EPA for that channel is set to say 80% it will actually only still be 70% due to the default setting in the PC software?

Thanks again,

Nathan.

[TomC]

Nathan,

Glad to hear you got Auto-trim working ok. I'll have to try this sometime.

I'd try triming the tail using tx rudder subtrim for drifts in heading hold mode. Adjust it mechanically for non-heading hold. Also, you might try increasing your gains a bit.

I use 0 as the horiz/pos default. That way the atv's on the tx = actual % gains. I think you only use other defaults if you do not have the pilot channel hooked up (like your tail gyro right now).

Cheers,
TomC

[Heli Paramedic]

Thanks TomC,

I'll change my default gain in the software to 0% and use pure transmitter ATV's for the gain. Good idea.

For the tail it feels wierd to use trim or sub trim as this is very different to the GY 401 that I'm used to. Anyway the trim almost completely fixed the drift in HH mode.Drift is now almost imperceptable. I've never used rate mode before, but I guess if I'm going to get into scale it would look better in flight.

Thanks very much for your help. I've only flown the helicommand 4 times so far and I'm very impressed.

Cheers,

Nathan.

[TomC]

G'day guys,

Just a short update on my Helicommand Rigid flybarless 10s Trex600e.

While I thought the in-built tail gyro was pretty good (using a fut9254 tail servo) I found that I would often have to change tail gain settings, depending on what battery packs (new vs older ones) I was using, even though I adjusted my gov to maintain ~ the same headspeed for diff packs. This was becoming a bit of a pain and when I reduced the tail gains the tail always started to feel a bit mushy.

Today I re-installed my old Fut 401 gyro and bypassed the internal HC tail gyro. This was a very easy thing to do. You just unplug the internal gyro lead and its gain plug from your Rx and hook up your tail gyro through it as you always do (rudder and gain plug). I did not even need to go into the PC program to modify this.

I had 4 flights with this today. The first flight took a few minutes to re-set my 401 gains and mechanically adjust tail trims (in non-heading mode, like all 401 setups). I have to say that the 401 was a BIG improvement over the internal tail gyro. I did not need to change tail gains everytime I hit a slightly higher or lower gov'd hs either. The 401 seems to handle +/-150 rpm changes in HS a lot better.

Using the external 401 gyro did not seem to effect the horiz stablisation mode either. It still worked as well as ever. So, I guess I need to correct my early statements that the internal tail gyro is as good as a 401, it isn't nearly as good in my opinion. I only wish I had tried it a lot earlier intead of mucking around with the internal tail gyro.

I hope that HC will address this shortcoming in a later release. Also, there may be a better tail servo match than my 9254 tail servo, I don't really know.

Anyway, thought you all should know this.

Best cheers,
TomC

[RcSuperSales]

Originally Posted by TomC

G'day guys,

Just a short update on my Helicommand Rigid flybarless 10s Trex600e.

While I thought the in-built tail gyro was pretty good (using a fut9254 tail servo) I found that I would often have to change tail gain settings, depending on what battery packs (new vs older ones) I was using, even though I adjusted my gov to maintain ~ the same headspeed for diff packs. This was becoming a bit of a pain and when I reduced the tail gains the tail always started to feel a bit mushy.

Anyway, thought you all should know this.

Best cheers,
TomC

Thanks for the info Tom. I will be using one of these on my 700 Electric. the Rigid version. I am planning on using the integrated tail gyro but I am setting up my heli strictly for Aerial Photography so I am thinking it should be able to handle it just fine. I had heard it works pretty good but if you are doing 3D to go with a separate gyro. But for my application it sounds like it may be okay, I hope anyways after what these things cost! I am looking forward to getting it up and running though.

Thanks for the update and let us know how it performs for you. Have a good one!

[JLH_1]

great info!! I have some questions about the helicommand. If you have it turned off and you get in trouble can you just turn it on to save your heli from crashing? How does it fly compared to it without it? Like when you try and do 3d stunts.

Thanks for the info.
Jason

[TomC]

Originally Posted by JLH_1

great info!! I have some questions about the helicommand. If you have it turned off and you get in trouble can you just turn it on to save your heli from crashing? How does it fly compared to it without it? Like when you try and do 3d stunts.

Thanks for the info.
Jason

Jason,

I'm currently flying mine in Fixed mode using one of switches to turn horiz mode on/off. I set the up switch atv to zero for rigid only and down to 80% gain for horiz mode (fairly high gain/quick recovery). I test this feature quite a bit to make sure it works ok. I have only had to use it once when I lost orientation and it worked very well. It kept the heli from spining/augering into the ground and gave me time to fully recover my orientation. You can fly around in horiz mode but you need to hold the sticks in position to keep it moving. Anytime you center the stick it will want to auto-level. I don't like flying around this way too often.

In this fixed mode you are limited to soft 3D since rotation rates need to be limited to ~200deg/sec for A/E and 400deg/sec for the tail (with an extrernal gyro, 200 if using internal one). This is to avoid confusing the stablisation sensors. If I use Extreme mode (you need your PC to switch to this mode) there is no limit but there is no auto-stablisation mode either. Right now I am finding the fixed mode great for soft 3D, backwards, and inverted practise. I'll switch it back to extreme mode when I want to wring it out.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
TomC

[majuro15]

Thanks for the write up and information! Researching it now for a scale bird I'm going to throw one in.

[dogfart]

Does the Helicommand Ridgid have the potential to work as a stabilization system (for a Trex600) and a V-Bar system (for a Logo500)?

[TomC]

Originally Posted by dogfart

Does the Helicommand Ridgid have the potential to work as a stabilization system (for a Trex600) and a V-Bar system (for a Logo500)?

Not exactly sure what you mean here? HC-Rigid can be used to stablise any flybared or flybarless heli. The V-bar rotor head on the Logo500 would work with HC-rigid, no problem. The only thing I'd caution you is that the internal HC tail gyro does not work very well. In my opinion you are better to run something like a Fut401/9254 as an external gyro. This does not effect the stablisation feature, in fact I think it improves it!

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
TomC

[dogfart]

Originally Posted by TomC

Not exactly sure what you mean here? HC-Rigid can be used to stablise any flybared or flybarless heli. The V-bar rotor head on the Logo500 would work with HC-rigid, no problem. The only thing I'd caution you is that the internal HC tail gyro does not work very well. In my opinion you are better to run something like a Fut401/9254 as an external gyro. This does not effect the stablisation feature, in fact I think it improves it!

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
TomC

Thanks Tom. Re my V Bar question, here's the bottom line (as Finless would say). I have a Logo 500 kit I bought used that came with a flybarless head (in addition to the regular one). I was thinking about going V Bar, but the last time I looked, which was a long time ago, the V Bar electronics were very expensive. Would the Helicommand do it?

[TomC]

Yes Helicommand Rigid would be fine to use in place of a V-bar system. I think if you check out todays prices you will find that the V-bar is now much cheaper than HC-Rigid. However, only HC gives you an auto-stability function.

I think that the V-bar system is now ~$500 and the HC-rigid (with required software and cable) is ~$660.

Cheers,
TomC

[kyalamikid]

Slight correction Tom, the Gyrobot 900 also has auto stabilisation, and it sounds like a better tail gyro.I have the GB on order for exactly the same reason as you went HC. Thanks for the informative thread, interesting on how much you can increase pitch...

[TomC]

Originally Posted by kyalamikid

Slight correction Tom, the Gyrobot 900 also has auto stabilisation, and it sounds like a better tail gyro.I have the GB on order for exactly the same reason as you went HC. Thanks for the informative thread, interesting on how much you can increase pitch...

This new system sounds very good (albeit a bit expensive). Please let us know how it works for you. Thanks.

Cheers,
TomC

[hooked124]

Originally Posted by e292644

Thanks for the great info!

TomC, great topic, was wondering if you might have some tips for a very bad tail wag. HC rigid 450 v2 four bladed head. Just as I get the rpm up to just short of hovering the tail starts wagging BAD! Completely unflyable! Everything else works just great, well for checking controls prior to spool up that is.
Thanks

[e292644]

Hmm, four bladed head means low RPMs and high twist force.
I only fly with two bladed head but not four.
You may need to play with Gyro gain with four bladed head.

Few questions:
1. How long does it stay stable on your short of hovering until it start wagging?
2. Is this your first flight with HC or it just happened.
3. Assuming you are using HC internal tail Gyro can you tell the Gyro gain setup?
4. Have you try out external Gyro? I will put a Gyro401 or similar one to test it.

Originally Posted by hooked124

TomC, great topic, was wondering if you might have some tips for a very bad tail wag. HC rigid 450 v2 four bladed head. Just as I get the rpm up to just short of hovering the tail starts wagging BAD! Completely unflyable! Everything else works just great, well for checking controls prior to spool up that is.
Thanks

[hooked124]

Originally Posted by e292644

Hmm, four bladed head means low RPMs and high twist force.
I only fly with two bladed head but not four.
You may need to play with Gyro gain with four bladed head.

Few questions:
1. How long does it stay stable on your short of hovering until it start wagging?
2. Is this your first flight with HC or it just happened.
3. Assuming you are using HC internal tail Gyro can you tell the Gyro gain setup?
4. Have you try out external Gyro? I will put a Gyro401 or similar one to test it.

1. not long, I'd say right around mid stick it starts, 0,50,75,85,100
2. no packed it up to ship home from Iraq, now the wag.
3. had those settings all over, every change makes no difference
4. yes, tried spartan, same results.

guess i will try smaller gear setup to lower rpm more, right now 12 tooth.

[e292644]

Have you check belt and tensions or maybe you need a new belt? I used have one with few missing tooth and it caused tail wagging.

Originally Posted by hooked124

1. not long, I'd say right around mid stick it starts, 0,50,75,85,100
2. no packed it up to ship home from Iraq, now the wag.
3. had those settings all over, every change makes no difference
4. yes, tried spartan, same results.

guess i will try smaller gear setup to lower rpm more, right now 12 tooth.

[TomC]

Originally Posted by hooked124

TomC, great topic, was wondering if you might have some tips for a very bad tail wag. HC rigid 450 v2 four bladed head. Just as I get the rpm up to just short of hovering the tail starts wagging BAD! Completely unflyable! Everything else works just great, well for checking controls prior to spool up that is.
Thanks

If everything is ok mechanically (belt, tail shaft, etc) then maybe try going through the HC setup again. Maybe your stick neutral postions have changed a bit since you've gotten home and put it back together again.

Cheers,
TomC

[ElectricSheep]

Originally Posted by TomC

Jason,

I'm currently flying mine in Fixed mode using one of switches to turn horiz mode on/off. I set the up switch atv to zero for rigid only and down to 80% gain for horiz mode (fairly high gain/quick recovery). I test this feature quite a bit to make sure it works ok. I have only had to use it once when I lost orientation and it worked very well. It kept the heli from spining/augering into the ground and gave me time to fully recover my orientation. You can fly around in horiz mode but you need to hold the sticks in position to keep it moving. Anytime you center the stick it will want to auto-level. I don't like flying around this way too often.

In this fixed mode you are limited to soft 3D since rotation rates need to be limited to ~200deg/sec for A/E and 400deg/sec for the tail (with an extrernal gyro, 200 if using internal one). This is to avoid confusing the stablisation sensors. If I use Extreme mode (you need your PC to switch to this mode) there is no limit but there is no auto-stablisation mode either. Right now I am finding the fixed mode great for soft 3D, backwards, and inverted practise. I'll switch it back to extreme mode when I want to wring it out.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
TomC

Hi Tom,
So when you use your switch to turn on horizontal mode (to recover quickly), how much of a lag time is there between the time you turn it on, and the time it takes to recover?

I know that when using a CoPilot II, you flick the switch and the system immediately kicks in to get you to a horizontal position. Can you do this with the Helicommand Rigid (flick a switch to save one's rear end)? Or does the Helicommand need some time to "recalibrate" before putting you in a stable, horizontal, hover position.

Thanks!