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CharlieChoo · 10-10-2012, 06:39 AM

Few years back when I first got my Protos500 people, and myself, were seeing very hot motors and batteries. A fix was smaller pinion and to use 100-100-100 throttle curve to keep it in its efficient area to deter it from bogging and getting hotter and taxing the batt more.

I went with a 13 tooth that promptly seized up on me and I put the heli away for over a year.

I now have a 12 on it and wanted to ask if anyone else uses a 12. My concern is that it's not spinning fast enough or perhaps the tail wont have enough authority.

Anyone running the 12? What would be my head speed with flat 100 throt with the stock motor that came with it 3 or 4 years ago?

Thanks

Mr dan · 10-10-2012, 08:37 AM

At that time, what size ESC were you using ? Also I would check the bearings in the motor if its still the same motor you intend to use, I believe the OEM motor at that time was the MSH 880 KV (rebranded scorpion HK-3026-880KV) a 12t pinion and the 93 t main gera would have yeilded a HS right arouond 2100 to 2150.

CharlieChoo · 10-10-2012, 10:18 AM

I am using the stock ESC... I think it says 80amp on it. I have a Pheonix as well that I used to run on a T500. I should hook that up and have a good and see if things are as hot.

2150 sounds kind of low to me... perhaps I should put the 15 back on and use the Phoenix to govern it.

Mikej · 10-10-2012, 11:26 AM

Charlie,

It sounds as if you have the original ESC if it is more than a few months old and it says 80 on it (the Protos originally had a LipoTech ESC and motor - the ESC is prone to overheat and shut down with throttle settings of less than 95%) - the later YGE ESC is much better and can happily tolerate low Throttle %.

Which Castle Creations ESC do you have ?

Cheers,
Mike

CharlieChoo · 10-10-2012, 12:44 PM

That sounds familiar to me.. Lipotech motor. It has a fan on the bottom the screws off. I know this because many times I've had to replace it due to fins busting off.

The ESC is a Phoenix 80 with the reddish colored label. Probably about 4 years old now... maybe 5.

tcprogrammer · 10-10-2012, 01:09 PM

I was using the 12t with the original lipotech motor and lipotech esc. non-stretch. I ran the ESC nearly full open, so it wouldn't overheat -- this is what you had to do with that ESC. I got really long flight times, but the headspeed was a real limiting factor. Being a beginner, my collective management was nowhere near good enough to handle this. It was almost manageable when it was flybarred, but when I converted to Beast X it was miserable with the low head speed (porpoising in FF, poor roll rate, etc.) I increased it to a 13 tooth and it became much more well behaved, at the cost of some fly time.

As I have young kids I don't fly much these days. I'm still using the same motor, esc and 13t pinion today although I have replaced the beastx with the MSH brain and I like the way it flies even better. If and when the ESC dies I will replace it with YGE. I am a sport flier, no 3D, and this works well for me. It has taught me decent collective management. If I wanted to learn 3D on this bird I'm sure I would want a larger pinion.

Good luck.

Mikej · 10-10-2012, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieChoo

That sounds familiar to me.. Lipotech motor. It has a fan on the bottom the screws off. I know this because many times I've had to replace it due to fins busting off.

The ESC is a Phoenix 80 with the reddish colored label. Probably about 4 years old now... maybe 5.

I don't know that specific ESC, but I use a similar aged Phoenix 45 on my Tarot 450 with the latest firmware and it works very well with a good governor

CharlieChoo · 10-11-2012, 06:51 AM

Alright.... my plan is put the stock 15 tooth back on and use my CC80 with updated firmware and stock lipotech motor and use head speed governor.

If I remember correctly the CC software will tell me what a good head speed is for the motor/batt/gear ratio I am using to allow some overhead.

EDIT... readyheli calculator is telling me 12 tooth gear is getting me 2464 in middle of flight. Is that right?

Mr dan · 10-11-2012, 10:11 AM

12t pinion, 93 t main, whats the KV on that motor?

CharlieChoo · 10-11-2012, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr dan

12t pinion, 93 t main, whats the KV on that motor?

880kv.

Dazhim · 10-11-2012, 12:56 PM

You sure about that .. my first protos had the lipotech motor and I was sure it was 800kv.
You might wana check on that.
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=396673
http://arkrc.com.au/msh51063-l-msh-p...00kv-lipotech/

CharlieChoo · 10-11-2012, 01:17 PM

Good catch Dazhim... I looked around some more and it seems I have the 800kv and not the 880. Mine has the thin removable fan that screws onto the bottom. It loves to throw blades off itself in crashes as I have replaced it a few times. So it looks like my hover head speed is over 2700 according to that calc which I am having a hard time to believe. It certainly was moving like lightning when I jammed the collective.

Im a little irked right now as I have order parts (that are taking forever to arrive) nearing 140 and now I wish I had just ordered a bare bones kit to get the new motor and esc and just constructed a new hele with all new bearings and all.

Mr dan · 10-11-2012, 01:27 PM

With a 12t pinion this is what you will have using the CC80 and governed (Set rpms)
A motor with a 880kv and a 6s lipo 12t pinion and 93t main:
Normal mode (1) 2100 rpms @92.6% efficeincy.
Stunt mode (2) 2150 rpm @ 94.8% efficeincy.

A motor with a 800kv rating is way less:
(1) 1900 @ 92.1%
(2) 1950 @ 94.5%

You really need to up the pinion to a 15t
Your Motor rated at 880Kv would give you:

2600 @ 91.7 %
2675 @ 94.3%

A motor at 800KV :
2350 @ 91.2%
2440 @ 94.6%

Dazhim · 10-11-2012, 01:34 PM

Never thought of it that way... but that motor does zing.. lol it comes down hot which made me a habit of cooling down between flights. never temp'd it. but I know I couldnt hold it lol.15t and like 90% does put you up there in headspeed and the heli hauls a^%. when I did need a esc I went with the castle for logging and turned out I needed that feature more than once. If I had to do it again and I will (winter project is another p500) I'm goin Ice lite 100. good luck on your rebuild

nessie · 10-15-2012, 04:38 PM

2 years flying my Protos with a 12T pinion at 2100-2300 rpm (jazz 55a governed)
flybar, or fbl. tail works fine (standard servo) for my mild 3d.

http ://vimeo.com/42300690

CharlieChoo · 10-16-2012, 11:56 AM

Well part of this hobby is experimentation and I enjoy it so I will try the 15 tooth governed and then the 12 with a flat 100% throttle and see what the differences are in characteristics and in motor temps. I'm just worried this thing is going to puff my packs again like did to my other ones that I ordered for it when I got it.

I ordered a ZYX fbl unit.... I read decent things about it so I will give it a go and compare it to the 3G and the 3GX I have and see which one I like best.

I am still waiting for blade grips etc from Amainhobbies... 3 weeks now

Not their fault but ordering stuff from the US into Canada is really bad for. It annoys me because when I order things from China I get it in a week or 2 at the most and I dont get nailed for extra fees at the border like I do when it comes from state side. Sometimes even sent through snail mail I get nailed for brokerage fees and taxes etc.

It's been 6 weeks I have not been able to fly because of this... winter is around the corner

I am so annoyed by this I am ready to buy a new Trex500 so I dont miss about on near 2 months flying again.

10-10-2012, 06:39 AM	#1 (permalink)
CharlieChoo Registered Users Join Date: Dec 2009	12 tooth too small??? Few years back when I first got my Protos500 people, and myself, were seeing very hot motors and batteries. A fix was smaller pinion and to use 100-100-100 throttle curve to keep it in its efficient area to deter it from bogging and getting hotter and taxing the batt more. I went with a 13 tooth that promptly seized up on me and I put the heli away for over a year. I now have a 12 on it and wanted to ask if anyone else uses a 12. My concern is that it's not spinning fast enough or perhaps the tail wont have enough authority. Anyone running the 12? What would be my head speed with flat 100 throt with the stock motor that came with it 3 or 4 years ago? Thanks

10-11-2012, 12:56 PM	#11 (permalink)
Dazhim Registered Users Join Date: Mar 2010	You sure about that .. my first protos had the lipotech motor and I was sure it was 800kv. You might wana check on that. https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=396673 http://arkrc.com.au/msh51063-l-msh-p...00kv-lipotech/ __________________ Dx7s, exi 450 pro(I swear it's a trex by now lol) MSH Prôtos: 500 fbl,MSH Prôtos 450 fbl Blackout 250 ZMR 250

10-11-2012, 01:34 PM	#14 (permalink)
Dazhim Registered Users Join Date: Mar 2010	Never thought of it that way... but that motor does zing.. lol it comes down hot which made me a habit of cooling down between flights. never temp'd it. but I know I couldnt hold it lol.15t and like 90% does put you up there in headspeed and the heli hauls a^%. when I did need a esc I went with the castle for logging and turned out I needed that feature more than once. If I had to do it again and I will (winter project is another p500) I'm goin Ice lite 100. good luck on your rebuild __________________ Dx7s, exi 450 pro(I swear it's a trex by now lol) MSH Prôtos: 500 fbl,MSH Prôtos 450 fbl Blackout 250 ZMR 250

10-15-2012, 04:38 PM	#15 (permalink)
nessie Registered Users Join Date: Nov 2008	2 years flying my Protos with a 12T pinion at 2100-2300 rpm (jazz 55a governed) flybar, or fbl. tail works fine (standard servo) for my mild 3d. http ://vimeo.com/42300690 __________________ atom 6hv, logo600

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10-10-2012, 08:37 AM	#2 (permalink)
Mr dan Registered Users Join Date: Oct 2009	At that time, what size ESC were you using ? Also I would check the bearings in the motor if its still the same motor you intend to use, I believe the OEM motor at that time was the MSH 880 KV (rebranded scorpion HK-3026-880KV) a 12t pinion and the 93 t main gera would have yeilded a HS right arouond 2100 to 2150.

10-10-2012, 10:18 AM	#3 (permalink)
CharlieChoo Registered Users Thread Starter Join Date: Dec 2009	I am using the stock ESC... I think it says 80amp on it. I have a Pheonix as well that I used to run on a T500. I should hook that up and have a good and see if things are as hot. 2150 sounds kind of low to me... perhaps I should put the 15 back on and use the Phoenix to govern it.

10-10-2012, 11:26 AM	#4 (permalink)
Mikej Registered Users Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: England	Charlie, It sounds as if you have the original ESC if it is more than a few months old and it says 80 on it (the Protos originally had a LipoTech ESC and motor - the ESC is prone to overheat and shut down with throttle settings of less than 95%) - the later YGE ESC is much better and can happily tolerate low Throttle %. Which Castle Creations ESC do you have ? Cheers, Mike

10-10-2012, 12:44 PM	#5 (permalink)
CharlieChoo Registered Users Thread Starter Join Date: Dec 2009	That sounds familiar to me.. Lipotech motor. It has a fan on the bottom the screws off. I know this because many times I've had to replace it due to fins busting off. The ESC is a Phoenix 80 with the reddish colored label. Probably about 4 years old now... maybe 5.

10-10-2012, 01:09 PM	#6 (permalink)
tcprogrammer Registered Users Join Date: Jun 2009	I was using the 12t with the original lipotech motor and lipotech esc. non-stretch. I ran the ESC nearly full open, so it wouldn't overheat -- this is what you had to do with that ESC. I got really long flight times, but the headspeed was a real limiting factor. Being a beginner, my collective management was nowhere near good enough to handle this. It was almost manageable when it was flybarred, but when I converted to Beast X it was miserable with the low head speed (porpoising in FF, poor roll rate, etc.) I increased it to a 13 tooth and it became much more well behaved, at the cost of some fly time. As I have young kids I don't fly much these days. I'm still using the same motor, esc and 13t pinion today although I have replaced the beastx with the MSH brain and I like the way it flies even better. If and when the ESC dies I will replace it with YGE. I am a sport flier, no 3D, and this works well for me. It has taught me decent collective management. If I wanted to learn 3D on this bird I'm sure I would want a larger pinion. Good luck.

10-11-2012, 06:51 AM	#8 (permalink)
CharlieChoo Registered Users Thread Starter Join Date: Dec 2009	Alright.... my plan is put the stock 15 tooth back on and use my CC80 with updated firmware and stock lipotech motor and use head speed governor. If I remember correctly the CC software will tell me what a good head speed is for the motor/batt/gear ratio I am using to allow some overhead. EDIT... readyheli calculator is telling me 12 tooth gear is getting me 2464 in middle of flight. Is that right?

10-11-2012, 10:11 AM	#9 (permalink)
Mr dan Registered Users Join Date: Oct 2009	12t pinion, 93 t main, whats the KV on that motor?

10-11-2012, 01:17 PM	#12 (permalink)
CharlieChoo Registered Users Thread Starter Join Date: Dec 2009	Good catch Dazhim... I looked around some more and it seems I have the 800kv and not the 880. Mine has the thin removable fan that screws onto the bottom. It loves to throw blades off itself in crashes as I have replaced it a few times. So it looks like my hover head speed is over 2700 according to that calc which I am having a hard time to believe. It certainly was moving like lightning when I jammed the collective. Im a little irked right now as I have order parts (that are taking forever to arrive) nearing 140 and now I wish I had just ordered a bare bones kit to get the new motor and esc and just constructed a new hele with all new bearings and all.

10-11-2012, 01:27 PM	#13 (permalink)
Mr dan Registered Users Join Date: Oct 2009	With a 12t pinion this is what you will have using the CC80 and governed (Set rpms) A motor with a 880kv and a 6s lipo 12t pinion and 93t main: Normal mode (1) 2100 rpms @92.6% efficeincy. Stunt mode (2) 2150 rpm @ 94.8% efficeincy. A motor with a 800kv rating is way less: (1) 1900 @ 92.1% (2) 1950 @ 94.5% You really need to up the pinion to a 15t Your Motor rated at 880Kv would give you: 2600 @ 91.7 % 2675 @ 94.3% A motor at 800KV : 2350 @ 91.2% 2440 @ 94.6%

10-16-2012, 11:56 AM	#16 (permalink)
CharlieChoo Registered Users Thread Starter Join Date: Dec 2009	Well part of this hobby is experimentation and I enjoy it so I will try the 15 tooth governed and then the 12 with a flat 100% throttle and see what the differences are in characteristics and in motor temps. I'm just worried this thing is going to puff my packs again like did to my other ones that I ordered for it when I got it. I ordered a ZYX fbl unit.... I read decent things about it so I will give it a go and compare it to the 3G and the 3GX I have and see which one I like best. I am still waiting for blade grips etc from Amainhobbies... 3 weeks now Not their fault but ordering stuff from the US into Canada is really bad for. It annoys me because when I order things from China I get it in a week or 2 at the most and I dont get nailed for extra fees at the border like I do when it comes from state side. Sometimes even sent through snail mail I get nailed for brokerage fees and taxes etc. It's been 6 weeks I have not been able to fly because of this... winter is around the corner I am so annoyed by this I am ready to buy a new Trex500 so I dont miss about on near 2 months flying again.

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