Are there any good english Kontronik Jive support forums?

[WBFAir]

Hello all

I think I've finally made up my mind to go with the Jive 120 for my 700E

It sux that I have to spend this much money but in the end I think this is the only way to put this thing up into the air with the least amount of worry that the ESC is set up right and isn't going to explode so if that is what I have to spend to do it, I guess I have to.

Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone who knew of any English based support forums for this brand and or ESC as if I have any questions, it would be very nice to be able to have a place to ask those.

I'm sure many here can help but I don't want to be annoying and ask a million long winded questions on a forum that is not dedicated to something it is really for.

Thanks for any help.

[dl7uae]

Hi!

I know of none.

Only: service@kontronik.com (English also)

Cheers. Tom

[Heli G]

Originally Posted by WBFAir

Hello all

I think I've finally made up my mind to go with the Jive 120 for my 700E

It sux that I have to spend this much money but in the end I think this is the only way to put this thing up into the air with the least amount of worry that the ESC is set up right and isn't going to explode so if that is what I have to spend to do it, I guess I have to.

Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone who knew of any English based support forums for this brand and or ESC as if I have any questions, it would be very nice to be able to have a place to ask those.

I'm sure many here can help but I don't want to be annoying and ask a million long winded questions on a forum that is not dedicated to something it is really for.

Thanks for any help.

That's the beauty of the Jive, it is plug and play....simple! Just choose mode 4 (lipos of same age and quality or else you will get varied HS depending on different lipos) or 11 (lipos varies in age quality so this is to get the same HS regardless of the lipo) and forget about it.

[WBFAir]

I guess one of the biggest things I might want to ask questions on is the Gov.

For me I never used that on my CC ESC for several years as how to properly set that up was quite confusing and for sure, you needed to know and understand a bit about your motor and gearing and how to get all that to work together along with settings of ESC's software to have all that work out right.

So how is all this accomplished so easily by a Jive by just putting it to one mode?

And if so, then what RPM is that running it at and what percentage of power is going to the Gov?

At any rate, really I'm not so much asking those questions here but just asking where I might find a online community to ask things like this.

Thanks

[dl7uae]

Mode 4
is what nearly each ESC is doing: Spoolup with a given throttle, wait for the rpm to become almost stable, take the current back-EMF frequency as reference for the control loop (governor). Means, another spoolup with the same battery, already at lower voltage, will reach a lower rpm as control reference.

Alternatively: Mode 11
learns the relation between trottle and back-EMF frequency (relative rpm). Means, lower battery voltage, more PWM to reach the commanded rpm. In other words: A too low voltage level leads to up to 100% PWM from the start on --> no working governor function, the battery is the governor.
Reset (mode 1) and set mode 11 again if the motor has changed (different KVA or pole number).

Both modes except of HeliJIVE mode 8:
Don't use more than 55..58% throttle to let the PWM headroom that the gov can do his job. (55..58% throttle as the JIVE understands, but only with JLog you can see that.)

HeliJIVE mode 8 (for external gov like VBar): The uplift PWM to throttle is only about 12%.

Mode 10 - the so called "KSA Mode":
Use this mode with "hot motors", low inductance motors, to avoid commutation failures. "KSA" reduces the range the auto timing can use.

And first of all: Teach-in of your transmitter's throttle range with mode 1!

Tom

[WillJames]

We can start a Kontronik support forum here where people can at least talk about it together. I don't think Kontronik is interested in any factory support here however.

[WBFAir]

Originally Posted by WillJames

We can start a Kontronik support forum here where people can at least talk about it together. I don't think Kontronik is interested in any factory support here however.

My personal feeligns on that are that would be really great if this could be done. And just to mention that and again this is just my personal feelings but I almost would prefer that there not be any company involvement as sometimes that can lead to things getting controlled by those who do not have the users best interest as the priority. Not that I'm in any way saying K is like that at all.

Thanks Will.

[dl7uae]

that can lead to things getting controlled by those who do not have the users best interest as the priority

So I should quit here concerning the JLog?

[Mr. Ben]

Tom
Don't quit! I don't think he meant you. Each time you post, I learn a little more.
Ben

[dl7uae]

Hmm.. Where is the difference between this and that manufacturer/designer?

But thanks for the flowers, Ben.

I would not have done anyway.

[Heli G]

Originally Posted by WBFAir

I guess one of the biggest things I might want to ask questions on is the Gov.

For me I never used that on my CC ESC for several years as how to properly set that up was quite confusing and for sure, you needed to know and understand a bit about your motor and gearing and how to get all that to work together along with settings of ESC's software to have all that work out right.

So how is all this accomplished so easily by a Jive by just putting it to one mode?

And if so, then what RPM is that running it at and what percentage of power is going to the Gov?

At any rate, really I'm not so much asking those questions here but just asking where I might find a online community to ask things like this.

Thanks

OK, seems like you still learning as to the heli setup (motor and pinion) for the Gov function not just the Jive in particular.

You have to determine the correct pinion for your heli (700e?), depending on what HS you want to run (which will now be governed by the Jive) depending on your flying style. Not sure if 2000rpm is what you need for the 700e? Also, what motor are you running? Incidentally I fly the TDR and 1850, which is more than enough for 3D.

For the Gov you set a straight line TC and Kontronik recommends running it at 80% to provide for enough head room to govern the motor. So what you want is the correct HS for your heli at 80% - lower is fine and I have mine at about 70%. Depending on your HS you may need to either drop (HS too high) or increase (HS too low) the pinion teath.

To know what HS you are flying at, get a friend to tach it. That is the best way to know for sure. You can also calculate it, but there are variables.

Also see http://www.readyheli.com/headspeed-calculator.html where Fredrik added the Jive Gov.

[WBFAir]

Originally Posted by Heli G

OK, seems like you still learning as to the heli setup (motor and pinion) for the Gov function not just the Jive in particular.

You have to determine the correct pinion for your heli (700e?), depending on what HS you want to run (which will now be governed by the Jive) depending on your flying style. Not sure if 2000rpm is what you need for the 700e? Also, what motor are you running? Incidentally I fly the TDR and 1850, which is more than enough for 3D.

For the Gov you set a straight line TC and Kontronik recommends running it at 80% to provide for enough head room to govern the motor. So what you want is the correct HS for your heli at 80% - lower is fine and I have mine at about 70%. Depending on your HS you may need to either drop (HS too high) or increase (HS too low) the pinion teath.

To know what HS you are flying at, get a friend to tach it. That is the best way to know for sure. You can also calculate it, but there are variables.

Also see http://www.readyheli.com/headspeed-calculator.html where Fredrik added the Jive Gov.

Actualy and not to sound like this is from a additude nor did I think you ment to be offensive.

But I have been playing with the Gov system of my Castle Creations ICE ESc on my 450 for over a year now and in fact, have educated many of club members on it as well.

I got a pretty good education on it directly from several hours on the phone with one of Castles top helo techs and often play with the demo setup to pic various pinions.

But I will say that with this Castle, I think its unique and that is the only one I know.

But again in getting back to my original post, one I'm not sure if this is the best place to discuss this as I don't want to hi-jack the section so to speak. And two, I still need to get and install a Jive and spend more time reading its instructions.

Hopefully Will will make a dedicated section for this as I think there is a market for it so to speak.

Btw dl7uae, just to mention it, that statement I made was in no way shape or form meant for you in one way or the other.

In the 4 years I have been on this board I don't think I have every posted in this section, nor do I know anything about you or how you handle things here.

In fact other then some slight suspicions of Horizon Hobby's doing this in sections dedicated to them but that they actually don't sponsor and only when things got really bad, I have never seen that kind of stuff here and was not meaning by saying what I said, to say that I did.

But in the past and in actuality in other hobbies and venus, I have seen that kind of thing before so that is why I just mentioned it and it was really a more off the cuff comment then anything.

[dl7uae]

Hey, do not take it so complicated, neither the one nor the other.

Did you notice my posting?

Tom

[WBFAir]

Originally Posted by dl7uae

Hey, do not take it so complicated, neither the one nor the other.

Good to know.

Yeah didn't meant to get all official, but you never know on these boards when you don't know someone, which way they are taking things.

So figured I'd go the full route just to be safe.

Originally Posted by dl7uae;3146324Did you notice my [URL="https://www.helifreak.com/showpost.php?p=3145088&postcount=5"

posting[/URL]?

Tom

Yeah I did and thanks for that Tom, don't quite know what it all means as I don't know the Jive, but I've booked marked it and will revisit it when I have mine so I can do a bit by bit going over.

At the moment I am waiting for my refurbished CC 120 to come back, should be here tomorrow actually.

Then gonna sell it for what I can, and put that towards a Jive, but having said that, I think I really want to get the new heli version that seems to have gotten that quick recall, so looks like it may still be a while.

Was bouncing around your section the other day though and see how your stuff can get me back my internal info possibilities, so if and when I'm at that right point, I'm gonna get into that so you will probably be hearing from me again.

Thanks

[WBFAir]

Originally Posted by dl7uae

Hey, do not take it so complicated, neither the one nor the other.

Good to know.

Yeah didn't meant to get all official, but you never know on these boards when you don't know someone, which way they are taking things.

So figured I'd go the full route just to be safe.

Originally Posted by dl7uae;3146324Did you notice my [URL="https://www.helifreak.com/showpost.php?p=3145088&postcount=5"

posting[/URL]?

Tom

Yeah I did and thanks for that Tom, don't quite know what it all means as I don't know the Jive, but I've booked marked it and will revisit it when I have mine so I can do a bit by bit going over.

At the moment I am waiting for my refurbished CC 120 to come back, should be here tomorrow actually.

Then gonna sell it for what I can, and put that towards a Jive, but having said that, I think I really want to get the new heli version that seems to have gotten that quick recall, so looks like it may still be a while.

Was bouncing around your section the other day though and see how your stuff can get me back my internal info possibilities, so if and when I'm at that right point, I'm gonna get into that so you will probably be hearing from me again.

Thanks

[Heli G]

Originally Posted by WBFAir

Actualy and not to sound like this is from a additude nor did I think you ment to be offensive.

But I have been playing with the Gov system of my Castle Creations ICE ESc on my 450 for over a year now and in fact, have educated many of club members on it as well.

I got a pretty good education on it directly from several hours on the phone with one of Castles top helo techs and often play with the demo setup to pic various pinions.

But I will say that with this Castle, I think its unique and that is the only one I know.

Just tried to help and given your post below I assumed you needed assistance with heli setup for the Gov..

Originally Posted by WBFAir

I guess one of the biggest things I might want to ask questions on is the Gov.

For me I never used that on my CC ESC for several years as how to properly set that up was quite confusing and for sure, you needed to know and understand a bit about your motor and gearing and how to get all that to work together along with settings of ESC's software to have all that work out right.

I think it will be good if Will starts a K forum, but in the meantime I thought we could get you up and running with the Jive Gov - again, it is ultra simple if you have already worked out the RPM you want to run which given your post you have.

[WBFAir]

Originally Posted by Heli G

Meant nothing by it and I just tried to help and given your post below I assumed I had to start at the beginning...



I think it will be good if Will starts a K forum, but in the meantime I thought we could get you up and running with the Jive Gov - again, it is ultra simple if you have already worked out the RPM you want to run.

Thanks for understanding Heli G, I think we all were doing and intending the right things and thanks for looking to help.

[Hollywood Jorge]

Many Jive Questions.

1) can you set up KNLY with Progdisk or Progcard. If so - what mode would you be in 4 or 11? No selection available unless you use sticks.

2) is the reset on the Progdisk the same as Mode 1 or do you need to use sticks for full reset.

3) finally, why do we need to learn stick positions - why not just set like MrMel 83 and 83. Just look for beep and add a couple of points.

All help will be appreciated.

P.s. Does and anyone have the helijive in stock yet?

[dl7uae]

Hi!

No official Kontronik answer.

1) You can setup by both, stick or ProgDisc/ProgCard II but I'd suggest to do the basic setup (mode selection) by stick. It is more convenient and less error prone. What do you mean, what you w'd be in by what? By stick or by progtool? Depends on what you setup.

For a heli:
(non-Heli)JIVE: Governor mode 4 or 11, optionally (w/ a low-inductive motor) mode 10 (KSA) on top.
HeliJIVE: Governor mode 4 or 5 or even the new mode 3 (combi mode) - or mode 6 for low-rpm junkies - and optionally mode 9 (KSA) on top.

Bail-out capability to be programmed on top if needed for aborted autorotations, but by ProgDisc only.

--- Means, yep, folks, the HeliJIVE supports those beloved toys as bail-out by itself, does not necessarily need a mode 8/VBar Gov for that. ---
(But on the other hand the feedforward of Uli's "visionary governor" is also a nice toy I could fall in love with.)

2) It is the same but I w'd use sticks for that.

3) You may do it MrMel's way also, or you monitor throttle (as seen by the JIVE) by JLog. But teach-in by resetting to mode 1 (sticks) or with a progtool is "more clean" on the part of the JIVE.

EDIT: With the VBar Gov we're under special condition because the throttle value originated by the VBar will not exactly be the same as that from a transmitter->receiver during a "normal" setup of the JIVE. So simply follow the instructions of the VBar UI. (And: In mode 8 the HeliJIVE does not care about trained throttle limits.)

Progtools: All new HeliJIVE functionality can be setup by ProgDisc only. Common extensions like programmable BEC voltage can be handled by a ProgCard II also. ProgCard I is not supported by a HeliJIVE.

[Inverse]

Originally Posted by dl7uae

Only: service@kontronik.com (English also)

Yeah, but don't expect a reply.