Protos exploding tail update??

[mahbouni]

My tail case exploded a short while back, but luckily it was during spoolup and no crash resulted. I had the 2nd version of the tail case and it was brand new. I had only fitted it the day before, having crashed a week before that. I think it was a failed tail grip, possibly weakened in the previous crash, that caused the tail case to explode. I now have the 3rd version of the tail case with the 3 longitudal bosses on the rhs. I also replaced the grips but I'm not sure if they are the updated version.

From now on if I crash I replace both tail case and tail grips without hesitation. Not worth another crash for the sake of a few $.

[Swashmix]

The new versions of the tail case and any other updated part should really be stamped with a production date or the part number followed by V2, V3 ect. It is not great when you are ordering a part thinking it is the latest version and it is not.

[jetnc]

Originally Posted by Swashmix

The new versions of the tail case and any other updated part should really be stamped with a production date or the part number followed by V2, V3 ect. It is not great when you are ordering a part thinking it is the latest version and it is not.

Considering everybody bought up the old tail cases because they were failing and nary a vendor had one left in stock, I was pretty confident when I ordered that I was getting the latest version. Once you get it you can easily tell it has been updated.

Does anybody think there are other forces involved other than the design of the tail case causing the failures? That is the question I would like answered. It would explain why some don't have any problems, and others do. For example, I'd feel much more confident knowing that if the belt was a tad looser it would relieve pressure on the tail, or something similar. The only forces I can think of would be the belt tension, and bolt tension on the tail case.

[Swashmix]

[QUOTE=jetnc;1296969]Does anybody think there are other forces involved other than the design of the tail case causing the failures? That is the question I would like answered./QUOTE]

Yes, many other pilots as well as MSH would like the answer also. I have read about many senarios for the instant failures but I am not aware that the true source (part or part combinations) has been identified with 100% certainty. I am reasonably confident this problem will be a non-issue in the next few months (and hopefully not famous last words)

[wespen]

Well, another weekend another tail exploded.
Im lucky it was after I landed, during spool down.

This was my last 2nd update tail, I REALLY hope 3rd update will hit the mark.

So for 6$ part failing here is the damage:

Boom - 8$ (16$ - 2 pack)
Tail brace - 7$
Belt - 7$
Main shaft - 6$ (12$ - 2 pack)
Tail shaft - 5$
Tail rod - 4$
Tail blades - 4$ (scraped, so can be reused)
Tail lever - 7$ (man I hate this part, every single time it breaks. its my 7th)
Blades - 60$ (chipped and scraped on paved strip, prob. can be used)
Tail pitch assembly - 9$
Tail blade holders - 2$
Tail box - 6$

Total: 120$ AND I DONT LIKE IT!!!!

Wesp

[CatchmyCorsair]

How does it explode on spool down? That makes no sense.

What happened in the 3rd pic?

[HighFreq]

That's a V1 tail box. Beside that i think a tail blade grip failed. Maybe because of vibes from the 3rd party tail blades. The box has been destructed by vibrations after one tail blade flew off. You can se one of the box bearings destroyed because of very bad vibes due to one tail blade being absent.


Corrado

[mosh1]

Corrado,

Do you know when US dealers will get more parts such as the new tail box? (And the canopy posts and other out of stock parts as well).

Originally Posted by HighFreq

That's a V1 tail box. Beside that i think a tail blade grip failed. Maybe because of vibes from the 3rd party tail blades. The box has been destructed by vibrations after one tail blade flew off. You can se one of the box bearings destroyed because of very bad vibes due to one tail blade being absent.


Corrado

[Gareth-71]

Yeah yeah yeah ! Blame the tail blades - right o'

So why have I gone though 3 unexplicable tail case failures each with similar costs?
(all with stock blades)

Must have been the fingerprint I left on the tail blade causing vibration, or perhaps it was the fat volt stuck in the motor wire?


I simply CANNOT BELIEVE that MSH are stooping so low as to blame somthing else!


Come on, stop trying to blame every one else and accept the problem or some engineer out there may take it upon himself to prove the problems....

Sheesh! Rather refrain from commenting (like Align do re the 600 main shaft problems) that blaming other things.




I have grown to love my protos, warts and all. What an awesome heli, but it does have a few problems, only a few. How about a metal tail upgrade option?

[wespen]

Originally Posted by CatchmyCorsair

How does it explode on spool down? That makes no sense.

What happened in the 3rd pic?

Thats the same tail box, left side of whats left of it.
Not sure what happened. Friend landed, hit TH and it was spooling down as normal and then gzzz---zzzap and parts shower.

Originally Posted by HighFreq

That's a V1 tail box.
Corrado

I dont know if its V1 or V2, the part numbers are the same
It can be V300 I couldn't tell when I order.

Wesp

[Ecaf]

Originally Posted by Gareth-71

Yeah yeah yeah ! Blame the tail blades - right o'

So why have I gone though 3 unexplicable tail case failures each with similar costs?
(all with stock blades)

Must have been the fingerprint I left on the tail blade causing vibration, or perhaps it was the fat volt stuck in the motor wire?


I simply CANNOT BELIEVE that MSH are stooping so low as to blame somthing else!


Come on, stop trying to blame every one else and accept the problem or some engineer out there may take it upon himself to prove the problems....

Sheesh! Rather refrain from commenting (like Align do re the 600 main shaft problems) that blaming other things.




I have grown to love my protos, warts and all. What an awesome heli, but it does have a few problems, only a few. How about a metal tail upgrade option?

Completely uncalled for. As Corrado stated "maybe", not "definitely".

As for the "accept the problem" comment, you are aware of 2 updates to the tail case correct? That this was a V1 case? The one thats been replaced by the 2 updates?

Oh, as an FYI, flying yesterday: 3 Proti, 15 flights among them, not a single tail case failure....

Come to think of it, not one of them has ever had a tail case failure.

I wonder what we are doing wrong....

[CatchmyCorsair]

Originally Posted by wespen

I dont know if its V1 or V2, the part numbers are the same
It can be V300 I couldn't tell when I order.

Wesp

It's a V1. The V2 has a continuous fillet around the bearing holder in your 3rd pic.

[Gareth-71]

Uncalled for????? Sheeesh! You're kidding right!

[Ecaf]

Originally Posted by Gareth-71

Uncalled for????? Sheeesh! You're kidding right!

No, Im not. It was a post written out of ignorance. The premise of your whole post was that MSH was not accepting there was a problem, which is demonstratively false.

By releasing a stronger tail case (TWICE!) they have accepted that there is an issue and are actively working to correct it.

Unlike other companies we know of......

[Mentalic]

So far I'm at 188 flights stock blades and no case failures. Only problem I have had with my Protos was a tail grip came off in flight, loctite just did not hold/not clean enough whatever. Now my tail grips are on with studs and aircraft nuts, there never coming off again.

Might switch to the heaver tail case anyway because it would help balance out my 7sA123's.

[Gareth-71]

Hahaha Ignorance ???? How can having experienced 3 unexplicable tail case failures be ignorant? - not practically possible!

Raw Nerve?

Anyway, they have NOT accepted a problem (becuase if they do then they should recall / replace FOC per consumer laws in most western countries).

The fact that they have updated the tail case TWICE is paramount to an admission, yet they charge for the updates, and, further to that, they have the unveliveable cheek to try and blame other parts such as the tail cases. (this is the part that has really got my goat).

Ingorant indeed.

Who is the one swollowing all of this I wonder?

Do tell, HOW have they demonstated admission?

Will they, at the very least, replace the spare (and still new) tail cases that I have - NOPE!

This is not really acceptabe and as they are an EU organisation I have a good mind to report this to trading standards. Hardly worth the effort based on cost, but I mean how can you ACCEPT the way that you are being treated? Blinded???

Great heli, yes, has a few problems (as they all do), yes - don't recall / replace FOC, well understandable perhaps - but shirking blame - Nooooo!!!!

BTW, wait until you draw the short straw on the parts lottery - let's see what the attitude is then.

[HighFreq]

As a matter of fact we did replace all the V1 tail cases free of charge with the update pack released back in november. Together with that we replaced main shaft and some other components, all of them free of charge. Can't recall of any other company that did that in the business.

We now do not replace V2 tail boxes because we feel is up to the job it was designed for. We made the V3 because we realized that people expect that part to take abuse and ask for more (read rough landings and maybe unbalanced 3rd party tail blades) than we designed a V3 much more robust.

So that all people know, when we released the update pack in November 2008, we recalled at our own expenses all the parts stock dealers had on the shelves and substitute all of them at our cost with the new parts.


Corrado

[wespen]

Thats right Corrado.

I guess I was just stuck with V1 cases (never got the update pack from my place of purchase ), I bought them as V2 but looks like I still got V1.
I got confirmed V3 cases from ReadyHeli incoming and I guess this will be my last tail case problem.

Would be great if you can stick "-3" to the tail case part no. so I always know what I bought.

Wesp

[Ecaf]

Time to flog the horse...

Originally Posted by Gareth-71

Hahaha Ignorance ???? How can having experienced 3 unexplicable tail case failures be ignorant? - not practically possible!

Raw Nerve?

I was pointing out your ignorance on the subject that based on your comments in this thread you dont really know whats going on. Not your flying.

No raw nerve's here, I love my Protos and have had nothing but good things to say about it.

Originally Posted by Gareth-71

Anyway, they have NOT accepted a problem (becuase if they do then they should recall / replace FOC per consumer laws in most western countries).

The fact that they have updated the tail case TWICE is paramount to an admission, yet they charge for the updates, and, further to that, they have the unveliveable cheek to try and blame other parts such as the tail cases. (this is the part that has really got my goat).

I disagree. They have acknowledged that the tail case might not be up to spec, and have recalled the V1 part and provided FREE updates to everyone. See Corrado's post above.

Also, flying helis is a "you assume all risk" hobby. Everything in this hobby is experimental, and its nice to see a manufacturer like MSH work hard to correct the problem.

As for "cheek to blame other parts", again Corrado said "maybe" not definitively. It could have been a variety of issues. Lack of thread compound, damage grip, tail blade root separating, etc... Anyone of them could have contributed to the issue.

Originally Posted by Gareth-71

Ingorant indeed.

Who is the one swollowing all of this I wonder?

Do tell, HOW have they demonstated admission?

I wont dive in any deeper at this point, but please see Corrado's post above for your answer....

Originally Posted by Gareth-71

Will they, at the very least, replace the spare (and still new) tail cases that I have - NOPE!

This is not really acceptabe and as they are an EU organisation I have a good mind to report this to trading standards. Hardly worth the effort based on cost, but I mean how can you ACCEPT the way that you are being treated? Blinded???

Great heli, yes, has a few problems (as they all do), yes - don't recall / replace FOC, well understandable perhaps - but shirking blame - Nooooo!!!!

BTW, wait until you draw the short straw on the parts lottery - let's see what the attitude is then.

As I stated before, my friends and I have 3 Proti with 100's of flights on them. No tail case failures on either the V1's or the V2's.

I wonder what we are doing wrong. Perhaps we built them incorrectly? Perhaps we dont abuse them enough?

Heck, I still have my V1 case, and I am flying a 2 crashes V2 case. Still good here!

[Gareth-71]

What flogging? ???

Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree, I am not going to labour the point because this is turning into a flogging match - I have much to say, but


Oh, and HALELUYEA, I just had a MAJOR crash and destoyed the protos (frame broken in half +++++) and the tail case survived !!!! - although if I do NOT replace the tail then I'll get get the blame for the next tail case failure I guess?

Well, I have an excuse for the carbon frame kit now.