120hv helijive shutdown in flight.

[Justin Stuart]

Any new news on this?

[markleyland]

Originally Posted by MrMel

Easiest explanation is:
Jive in "non-KSA" mode auto-adjust settings depending on several factors.
In KSA mode the auto-adjusting part is less, its more static i.e. same as other ESCs.

(Timing and drive-rate)

What would be the flight differences between both modes. Would you loose performance in KSA?

[johnopsec]

Originally Posted by markleyland

What would be the flight differences between both modes. Would you loose performance in KSA?

I don't know for sure but, I would venture to guess that in non-KSA, where the Jive is not dynamically adjusting to the motor, you're going to be much closer to 100% efficiency. Then again, I'd gladly accept a 5-10% performance degradation that was always there over a 100% performance degradation that showed up at the most inopportune times!

[MrMel]

Originally Posted by markleyland

What would be the flight differences between both modes. Would you loose performance in KSA?

Yes, you will loose some performance.
But it's kind of arbitrary as the reason for using KSA in some cases is that the motor produce more power and EMF spikes so the controller cannot handle it.
Meaning, if you REALLY need that last x% power, your setup from start is not optional, you should have chosen differently.

[markleyland]

The reason I ask is my motor has low resistance issues with my Jive 100+LV. I would have chosen differently but KDE told me the two were compatible when I asked so I bought their KDE/NEU when they first came out (now discontinued). I have problems arming the esc at times and have never tried the KSA mode. I remember someone else having the same issues with this motor who tried KSA but didn't solve the problem. Worth a try I guess as long as there are no adverse effects or damage to the motor/ESC?

[Hyaloid]

More about ksa


https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...29#post3187229

[Tohtori R]

Originally Posted by MrMel

I have a telephone meeting with Kontronik coming tuesday, but I can tell you what you should NOT do, do not "abort" throttle hold, that seems to be the biggest risk factor as far as I have found out so far.

If you do throttle hold, allow the motor to stop, completely.

else you can get into commuting error, with it, risk of big EMF spike, with it, risk of damaging ESC or motor.

I'm not talking about Vbar + Auto-rotation bailout, since that use an idle mode, but I mean if you do a "full throttle hold" and then flip out of hold before motor physically has stopped.

Hi again MrMel,

i was asking few weeks ago about v-bar gov + helijive + 4525-520 that i have for my goblin and i want to use... that was what you said...

so...

How was that telephone call? any details about the problem?

and is this problem related to helijive or is it the same with all ESCs?

Thanks for your time again
Toni

[MrMel]

They really did not have any info on the topic, sorry.
what I talk about above is Mode 8 on HeliJive and should not occur on other Jives.

[Tohtori R]

Originally Posted by MrMel

They really did not have any info on the topic, sorry.
what I talk about above is Mode 8 on HeliJive and should not occur on other Jives.

i mean other brands... is this a problem of kontronik when used with that motor or?
if i get some other brand esc (scorpion comander etc..) is there the same problem waiting for me?

i have also read about align 700MX motors that has burned with that setup so is it related to motor choice at all?

sorry for bombing you with questions but i have a very expensive setup waiting and i dont want to kill it for not knowing something...

v-bar gov still seem very intresting if it works...

-Toni

[MrMel]

Originally Posted by Tohtori R

i mean other brands... is this a problem of kontronik when used with that motor or?
if i get some other brand esc (scorpion comander etc..) is there the same problem waiting for me?

i have also read about align 700MX motors that has burned with that setup so is it related to motor choice at all?

sorry for bombing you with questions but i have a very expensive setup waiting and i dont want to kill it for not knowing something...

v-bar gov still seem very intresting if it works...

-Toni

It's only Kontronik ESC that has this particular problem.

[Tohtori R]

Originally Posted by MrMel

It's only Kontronik ESC that has this particular problem.

thanks for making this clear.

-Toni

[dennisvm75]

Originally Posted by MrMel

I have a telephone meeting with Kontronik coming tuesday, but I can tell you what you should NOT do, do not "abort" throttle hold, that seems to be the biggest risk factor as far as I have found out so far.

If you do throttle hold, allow the motor to stop, completely.

else you can get into commuting error, with it, risk of big EMF spike, with it, risk of damaging ESC or motor.

I'm not talking about Vbar + Auto-rotation bailout, since that use an idle mode, but I mean if you do a "full throttle hold" and then flip out of hold before motor physically has stopped.

Hi Mr. Mel

Thanks for the warning. This is the first time iVe heard of this. I have only 1 Kontronik ESC so far and I dont frequent this site. What happens if you have damaged your ESC by doing so and not knowing about it? Will Kontronik still honour their warranty? I will read my intructions manual again regarding whether this warning is included in the intructions manual. If its not then it should be included in the front page i reckon.
Thanks

[MrMel]

Originally Posted by dennisvm75

Hi Mr. Mel

Thanks for the warning. This is the first time iVe heard of this. I have only 1 Kontronik ESC so far and I dont frequent this site. What happens if you have damaged your ESC by doing so and not knowing about it? Will Kontronik still honour their warranty? I will read my intructions manual again regarding whether this warning is included in the intructions manual. If its not then it should be included in the front page i reckon.
Thanks

Kontronik will always look at each case for warranty claims, as long as you provide information enough they are very fair, and no, it's not an official warning, but rather a friendly pointer, i.e. only common thing I've seen so far that has potential to have problems

[johnopsec]

Originally Posted by MrMel

I can tell you what you should NOT do, do not "abort" throttle hold, that seems to be the biggest risk factor as far as I have found out so far.

If you do throttle hold, allow the motor to stop, completely.

else you can get into commuting error, with it, risk of big EMF spike, with it, risk of damaging ESC or motor.

I'm not talking about Vbar + Auto-rotation bailout, since that use an idle mode, but I mean if you do a "full throttle hold" and then flip out of hold before motor physically has stopped.

Does that mean that this "A cheat for autorotation bailout on Jive?" is a bad idea? Technically, it's not HOLD but simply slows drops throttle to a point where the motor is being driven but, not fast enough to hover.

[MrMel]

Originally Posted by johnopsec

Does that mean that this "A cheat for autorotation bailout on Jive?" is a bad idea? Technically, it's not HOLD but simply slows drops throttle to a point where the motor is being driven but, not fast enough to hover.

No, as long as motor is driven it's even more safe than anything else.
(that's why when using VBar you should run "Idle at AR")

The problem have potential when
a) ESC has stopped driving the motor (turn off)
b) Motor still spinning but nothing drives it.
c) ESC tries to restart the motor.

It's a very short timeframe, drag from main gear and pinion usually makes this short, and with lighter motors even more so, but if you have a very big motor like a Scorpion 50xx series etc, it takes a little while before motor stops.

[johnopsec]

Gotcha. Just wanted to make sure. I didn't want people cooking their ESCs following advice that I had given. Good way to get a BAD reputation!

[dennisvm75]

Originally Posted by MrMel

Kontronik will always look at each case for warranty claims, as long as you provide information enough they are very fair, and no, it's not an official warning, but rather a friendly pointer, i.e. only common thing I've seen so far that has potential to have problems

Thanks so much Mr. Mel