Still Flying with Flybar and Tail Gyro?

[slamdance]

I'm curious if you still flying with the old flybar and single axis tail gyro?
Is this "handicapping you" from progressing? I just want to hear from people who have flybar and tail gyro ONLY.

I have over 6000+ flights on my trex 500, and I am on my way to getting the piroflip down(7yrs in the making...with "NO" crash in that pursuit). I have crashed for other mech or "stupid" reasons, but not as I follow baby steps into more difficult elements.

So far I am not "sold" on going FBL. 3GX > BeastX > V-bar.
Nor DFC. From what I've seen with Align, neither are they.

PROS for keeping FB

1.) Save money. Free "old heads/FB/parts" from almost everyone i know with trex 500.
2.) No wasted time. Zero time invested on FBL learning curve. Including, "standard protocol" of swapping 3Gx > BeastX > Vbar insanity. Easily costing 1/2 year of setup.
3.) Save money: FB linkage takes brunt of crash shocks. Servo(w/metal gears).
4.) Save money: From watching others, this "FBL transition process" seems to easily add up to $1,000+. This includes learning curve w/mystery crashes. UPgrades 3gx>beastx>vbar. Brand new dfc head.

Now a few Cons of having flybar head:
1.) More linkages, bearing, and screws maintenance on flybar head.
2.) Headspeed power consumption due to FB. (solved with my superior NEU 1706 motor..but if you don't have)
3.) More thumb jiggling, but that comes natural as you advance. Do you "think about" steering wheel jiggling when riding a bicycle? Not. Right. When doing tricks like tick-tocks with FB. There is always a micro second of correction needed at each point then reverse.
I think FBL makes up for this...but if you already got the skill. No need.
4.) You can do continuous piros.
However, it will drift away. No skill in that. In order to do traveling or controlled piros you need the skill. (Not unlike spinning a basketball on your finger. )

[leakywellie]

Yup, I've got a Trex 500GF with flybar and futaba gy520 on the tail. At my lowly skill level that's more than adequate for me. I'm just not into spending anymore money on it or trying to learn how to set another head unit. Happy happy happy....

[helirifick]

Until recenlty, I have only flown FBL.

Although I started all my RC stuff on a Blade 400 3D 4 years ago, it flew exactly 10 seconds twice, before crashing, then I went to mcpx v1 and learned to fly on that, and the rest is history.

Now, I want to try FB'd helis again. There is just something very awesome about Bell-Hiller heads. So, recently I got:

- 2 x Trex 500E Super Combo's
- Trex 500E Pro Super combo (the plastic one)
- 450 Pro V2

all are new in box. and all flybarred.

Parts add up and are expensive, even discounted.

And I don't think FBL setup is that hard -- you already know most things just by virtue of setting up FB helis.

[str8wing]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with flybarred helis... Nothing. The flybar is a mechanical gyroscope for the main rotor. The only real advantage a FBL heli has is the motor doesn't have to pull the extra drag of the flybar.
The cost of the gyro is kind of a wash these days. A tail rotor only gyro isn't much cheaper than a full three axis FBL unit. I've purchased brand new in the box 3Gx units for $35 here on HF.
Right now I have five flybarred, and three FBL helis that I fly almost daily. I'll go all FBL when I can no longer get parts for the flybarred heads... My 2 cents...

[Gladius]

If you like to rock the flybar, then by all means

But FBL doesn't need to cost you anywhere near $1000. You don't need to buy a 3GX before you buy a BeastX. Just skip right to the VBar. And a Tarot FBL head for the 500 isn't much more than $50.

[Abenn]

I have a fbl 500 and 550 for my scale fuselages, but my regular flybarred 500 with a Spartan Quark gyro is my main heli for practicing.

[Solmanbandit]

I have flown both on the 500. The FB flies great on the 500 and was quite impressed for being FB. However, going FBL is so much nicer and tunability is endless. Also the fact that it is not robbing so much power and less hardware to deal with. It really depends on your needs and skills on whether to switch. I progressed much better once I went FBL. Also wind doesn't affect FBL as much as FB.

[slamdance]

Solmanbandit. This thread was only meant for FB pilots, but I welcome your input. I have a few questions for you:
1.) Going to FBL do you find more flight capacity remaining on your lipos? (for the same flight time, due to lower throttle curve)
2.) How much rpms did you gain?
3.) After you went FBL, what maneuvers have you been able to master?
4.) Do you like to "tune" your heli to be less or more reactive than previously with FBL?

Thanks,
(just trex 500 w/6200 flights/18 crashes...knock on wood)
Videos: Search: youtube/trexinvert

[Solmanbandit]

I have flown FB, but have flown FB and have a friend who still has FB. So even though I am FBL now, I still have flown FB.

1.) Going to FBL do you find more flight capacity remaining on your lipos?
(for the same flight time, due to lower throttle curve)

No, it really just depends on how hard you fly it and have it geared.

2.) How much rpms did you gain?

Did not gain rpms, but the power was definitely noticable. They say you gain about 25% more

3.) After you went FBL, what maneuvers have you been able to master?

Good question, I am in my mid 40's, so learning new tricks is bit harder for me. i have been working on piroflips and hurricanes. I am starting to get them down. Oh I can say that I recently go sideways tic tocs down good and can hold them. I can also say that it feels much more solid and FBL makes a big difference in the wind.


4.) Do you like to "tune" your heli to be less or more reactive than previously with FBL?

Definitely more. With FB, always felt that the cyclic was slow and not crisp. With my ikon, I can make it fly 3 different ways with a flip of a switch.

[babyuh1]

I fly both and every advantage quoted for the FBL is real. It's just that you see it more the smaller the heli gets.
I went FBL with the Robird on my Protos 500 after flying it for years FB and there is no comparison! It flys at least two sizes bigger FBL. and is so smooth and predictable. I also gained at least 20% in flight time when comparing similar flights.

I didn't want to get into FBL because I'm not really into spending a lot of time tuning and tweaking things with a computer ( and haven't really had to with the Robird) but I am so glad that I tried FBL.

[Solmanbandit]

I was just thinking that my flight time went down. I started to fly a lot more aggressively because it felt so much better.

[SumOFparts]

You know I'm gonna irritate a lot old timers here - but I speak the truth....

Most all the the new/young up and coming pilots never even give the FB a second look.....

It all the AARP group that's holding on to nostalgia - and gonna keep flying em until they cant get parts....

-
Really doesnt matter anyway - its really about having fun......
Its just the FB peoples have more fun rebuilding - looking for parts - and waiting on batts to charge......

-

[treotraveler]

Originally Posted by SumOFparts

You know I'm gonna irritate a lot old timers here - but I speak the truth....

Most all the the new/young up and coming pilots never even give the FB a second look.....

It all the AARP group that's holding on to nostalgia - and gonna keep flying em until they cant get parts....

-
Really doesnt matter anyway - its really about having fun......
Its just the FB peoples have more fun rebuilding - looking for parts - and waiting on batts to charge......

-

You're a funny guy.

Some of us old, geriatric, aarp types that can't wipe the drool from our chins without letting go of the flybar, have been flying before you were out of diapers. I still hang on to my 14 nostalgia machines, GMP, Kalt, TSK and Schluter. All nitro and all with flybars. Still have my old pcm radios, JR, Futaba and Aristocraft

Back in the day, no such thing as electric birds, no such thing as fbl controllers, and if you wanted a fbl head, you had to make one.

I do have 28 electric birds. All flybarless, except 2 are flybarred f3c birds.

[reALIGNed]

Just repaired my 'ol 500CF (w/FB), had a major crash. Its all put back together (love the new 500mx motor), but now I have a tail twitch at all rpm's. I'm using a new DX6.......would anyone know where a good starting point on gyro gain would be, I went between 30 and 45 and no change. Next is to try a different gyro tape. Need help, thanks.

[Gladius]

Can you describe the tail twitch? If you changed your gain by that much, then I doubt it is a gain issue. It sounds to me like you have binding somewhere, or a bad bearing.

[reALIGNed]

It's a constant wag back and forth and feels loosely

[Gladius]

Have you up'ed your i gain?

[reALIGNed]

i gain, what is that? I've been in the gyro menu in my tx, is that it?

[Gladius]

Controllers have 3 types of gain: Proportional, Integral, and Derivative. PID for short. When you adjust your "gyro" gain, you are adjusting all 3. A lot of FBL controllers give you the option of adjust each individually though. I(ntegral) gain is what minimizes the error of your final tail position.

How fast is the wag back and forth? What FBL unit are you using?

[Solmanbandit]

Originally Posted by Gladius

Controllers have 3 types of gain: Proportional, Integral, and Derivative. PID for short. When you adjust your "gyro" gain, you are adjusting all 3. A lot of FBL controllers give you the option of adjust each individually though. I(ntegral) gain is what minimizes the error of your final tail position.

How fast is the wag back and forth? What FBL unit are you using?

Just repaired my 'ol 500CF (w/FB),

Did you notice that he is flying FB?