Help a beginner in RC Helis

[tatig]

Hi,

Just bought a Copter/X 450 Black Angel... Flybarless... AR6200 Rx, CX-3x1000 Flybarless Gyro, and DX7 Spektrum Tx

I have set most of it and trying to ensure the flybarless is correct.. I left it with the defaults and got most of it going... The Flybarless looks like it is ok, as I move to one side it does compensate properly...

My problem is that I tried to start it... did not put much throttle about 30%, but the rudder just started turning to the right, trimming did not help, as the rudder kept on moving. As soon as I started to correct it and trying to stop, well it went out of control and to one side...

I am using GYRO SENS---> RUDD D/R, RATE: 0:28% and 1:71%.
My D/R & EXP AILE: EXP:40, D/R 100%, ELEV: EXP:40, D/R 100% and RUDD: EXP:25, D/R 100%

All the settings for the Tx are the recommended by CX-3x1000 and the software.

I have the USB and the software to setup the Gyro, but I have not done so... I know it would help a lot but wanted to get this thing in the air...

Anyway, any advice will be helpful, specifically with the problem with the rudder.

[ruben.rc]

I don't any experience with this particular fbl unit but maybe i can give you some tips.
With quite a lot fbl gyros you CAN'T use the transmitter to trim only mechanical changes. This is because the gyro sees the trim as a constant stick input and wants to Turn the tail. Do be sure to check your manual on this.

also be sure your gyro compensates the right way. I mite help to give throttle her up to somewhere around 80% this will give you way more tail control.

The final thig you can do is setup your tail in rate mode (assuming you fly HH) so you got all the mechanical setup the way it should.

If all doesn't work you have to digg in deeper and look for vibration and thing like that. Or maybe you get some good advice from a more experienced member

Well i hope i helped and success!

[tatig]

Thanks Ruben... I did ZERO all the sub-trims and still had a constant left move ... I'll check the sensitivity on the Tx stick, but I think I had it set for beginner...

[tatig]

Anyway, I was able to have sometime with the heli today... Somehow, I was able to fix the tail and it is steady at 30%, I did pulled and pushed the stick sideways to check the sensitivity and found it ok... I did Reverse the Rudder in the Tx (that could have done the trick, but I am not sure) and manage to give a bit a trim, and that kept it steady...

I will try the software tonight (if I have the time) and how we go...

Does it matter if the Gyro is under the tail cradle? I got it there with Velcro and a belt around it.. does it have any effect being up-side-down... I do not think so, but again I am not an expert...

[Boinker]

Is the gain too low? I know when the gain was low on my bird it liked to walk the tail to the right a lot.

[ruben.rc]

Good to hear you fixed the tail. When you get the software working you can setup all the trims using your pc. This will ensure the gyro doesn't behave odd because of the trim values in the transmitter.

I would suggest that before flight you check the tail at a higher rpm to ensure it acts the way it should. Mounting the gyro upside down isn't a problem as long as the compensation is also inverted.

Also i can't say it often enough be sure to the compensation is the way it should you don't want to start the first flight spiraling out of control i did .

Good luck with the software

[tatig]

Well, tail is behaving well now...

I have checked the gain, and it was set up as specified in the gyro... got to see this a bit closer... but I have other problems...

I sort of got done, but it is not behaving how it should... somehow I have missed up and reversed some channels (because the software told me so) and the swash plate is not turning or compensating, when I move the heli manually...

When I Roll the axis ... I get the initial movement correct but then stabilizes, is this correct?

But then when I pitch forward my elevator goes down... which is WAY WRONG!!!

When I yaw, I get the proper movement of the blades...

I guess I got to play a little more with it, and check the channels, and read why the software wanted me to reverse the pitch...

[ruben.rc]

Hi, nice to hear you got the tail all setup.

When you move the tail of the heli the gyro can correct in 2 ways the rate mode this means that the tail counters the initial movement and then returns to the nutral point. Or the Head Hold mode (HH) this means that when you turn the tail it keeps countering this movement until the tail returned to the position you started of with.

As a beginner you want to start off in Head Hold mode this keeps the tail in a constant lock keeping the heli nice and stable. mostly this is achieved by adjusting the gyro in the transmitter with spectrum 0 to +100 and with some radios 50 to 100. In depth instructions are in the transmitters and gyro manuals.

You want to keep the servo setting in the transmitter the way the gyro tells you. This will save you a lot of strange flying behaviour. As far as the compensation you should be able to fix the direction in the gyro setup.

If the gyro compensates the right way the swashplate should tilt the opposite way of movement. so if you pich the heli forward the swash should move backwards. If you yaw the heli to the right the swash should move to the left.

Lets hope you get it all figured out and good luck!

[tatig]

Ruben... Thank you mate...

The heli is a lot better now... yes I should have seen that video before... it was easier to setup the GYRO... now it is trimmed by the softare and the swashplate and the tail are behaving how it should... there is a bit of vibration when I tested with the blades on, but I have not balance the blades and neither blade tracking... so these are two areas I need to work with...

Now, you got a point there... I have the GYRO set on NORMAL, but you think that putting it in AVCS(HH) could be better... I have found that I already have a switch programmed in my Tx for that, and tested it with the GYRO software, so I could switch to HH anytime... Yes, I know that most likely I have to adjust the tail gain also... Have to play with it, and I'll give it a try...

Now, for a little help... I have a 2200mAh 3S 11.1V 40C battery and a 40A BEC... can I use the 40C or I have to go down to the 20C or 25C???

Much appreciated...

[ruben.rc]

Hi Tatig.

like i said i suggest starting in AVCS mode this way you won't have any tail drift so you van concentrate at keeping the bird in the air . As far as the gain i think the manual suggests 36% for me that was a good starting point.

You won't have any problems with the 40C battery. The C rating stands for the safe discharge speed so for a 2.2A battery at 40C you get a max discharge of 88A. As far as the ESC the amount of C of the battery doesn't matter as long as your ESC is rated for the amount of amps your heli pulls (40A is enough). I shouldn't go back to a 20 or 25C battery although this is possible these battery's have a higher internal resistance and therefore have a lower discharge rate. This means they will heat up more quickly and be slightly less efficient so the higher the amount of C's the better.

i hope this helps and good luck

[tatig]

Thank you Ruben...

I have ordered another 3 40C as my stock if full of 20C and 25C... not knowing better.... yeah, and I have experience batteries inflating like a balloon...

[ruben.rc]

Hey how are you doing with the heli did you get it all setup? Maybe even had a maiden flight??? Im starting a build myself very soon because i juts got myself a Vwinrc 550

[tatig]

Hi Ruben

Hey great!!! sounds like a good heli...

Nah, I've been busy with work... but the other night I had a little time to spare and did some setup with the software. As a matter of fact, I've done it so many times I know exactly each step...

I have completed the programming, even storing it and forcing the update in the GYRO...

Now I got a couple of questions...
the software says that for the setup is good to adjust trims with the software and not the Tx... I have done that, leveled the swash, got the pitch correct and even the optimization came out as expected... but...
First, when I tried to hover... I could see the swash tilting to one side, which is not of my liking... I have not put some sub-trim ... I probably should...

Also, noticed that when I switch it to Head Held mode, my swash tilts straight up in the aileron side... which it should not at all...

No idea... another bugging problem...

[ruben.rc]

Hi tatig

good to hear the programming of the gyro is working out good.

As for your swash problem you should only use sub-trim to zero out the transmitter parameters in the gyro's software monitor. I made the mistake using sub-trim to trim the servos but this wont work. because as soon as you unplug the battery and plug it back in the servo returns to it´s original position. But the gyro doesn't recognize the central stick position, because sub trim should only be used when calibrating the central positions.

So first you want to calibrate the transmitter to the gyro (if you haven't done this yet) using sub-trim and end point settings ( you should get 0 on mid stick and a range from -100 to 100 on full output)

The problem you heave with the swash tilting when you switch to Heading Hold mite have to do with any enabled mixers in your transmitter. So make sure those are all disabled if the mixers aren't messed up i wouldn't know what could cause this problem

I hope you get it all going. GOOD LUCK

[tatig]

Thank you Ruben...

Yes, I ZERO out all my sub-trims in the Tx before I started to program the Gyro... Then I did centered and trimmed the servos accordingly with the Gyro software... All of that worked... just one thing I remember now, is that I had a little vibration in the tail while I was at around 30%, but once I got over it, the vibration was gone and then I noticed the swash tilting a bit right... and wanted to use the sub--trim, but you are right, as soon as I disconnect the battery, the Gyro will go back to its original state...

I am sure LOST ... why the swash behave that way when switched to HH... I am going to have to go back to the software programming and see if I missed something... I programmed the Gyro in NORMAL MODE... and this could be the problem...

Thank you mate...

[ruben.rc]

hi tatig

I wouldn't worry to much about the vibration as it is probably just resonance. When you really can't get the problems figured out in the software you should look deeper into the vibrations. And if they aren't transferred to the fbl gyro, and maybe even put a metal plate between the gyro mounts. But you shouldn't worry about this now because i think vibration isn't the problem.

[tatig]

Yeah, you are right... Seems to me the Gyro is not totally secured either... I think the pads sent with the gyro are lousy ones, as once I just put a little pressure on the frame (next to the GYRO) and it came unglued... I switched it for another pad of the same... I wonder if I should put two pads and get a better grip that way???

I need to have more time with it... and I have had work all of this time, not giving me the time I need...

Thank you Ruben