Flymentor servo and wiring help for beginners

[Ivor Hill]

Hi Follow up to my last post,(heads working better this morning). It wont work.
I think you have aileron and pitch wires crossed. Looking at the heli from the rear,lelt hand servo to port one on flymentor, right hand servo to port 2 and elevator to port 3 and start again.Please read my first postin this thread and more flymentor help thread. Please let me know how you get on. Ivor

[Gosub]

Hi Ivor,
I tried that and it just made things worse... but it did set me thinking in the right direction.

I had it in my head that the radio should be set 'neutral', that is, no mixing and no servo reverse. Once I got that out of my head, I was able to reason it through. There's still no mixing, but the elevator is now reversed. This along with fiddling with the 'servo' and 'control' tab settings has set it right. Don't ask me what I did... I'm not sure

Thanks for your input, it cleared things up somehow.

[Ivor Hill]

Originally Posted by Gosub

Hi Ivor,
I tried that and it just made things worse... but it did set me thinking in the right direction.

I had it in my head that the radio should be set 'neutral', that is, no mixing and no servo reverse. Once I got that out of my head, I was able to reason it through. There's still no mixing, but the elevator is now reversed. This along with fiddling with the 'servo' and 'control' tab settings has set it right. Don't ask me what I did... I'm not sure

Thanks for your input, it cleared things up somehow.

Hi yes you should have switch of mixing in your radio,set for single servo operation, mixing is done by flymentor, sorry I assumed you did that. I spent an hour this morning trying to re-create your problem and the only way I could do it was by swopping wires one and two on the flymentor unit,I was then able to set everthing correctly exept for elevator. It was ok on the stick.but moved the wrong way if I tipped the heli. So I learnt something to. But I am confused do you have the left hand servo ( heli viewed from rear) in port one or two on flymentor ?. Ivor

[Gosub]

Hi Ivor,
I have left hand servo in 1, right servo in 2. The mixing was turned off in the radio right from the start, but I assumed that all the servos needed to be set to normal in the radio, and that reverse switching was done in the FM software.

It looks like some fiddling is needed between the rev/nor servo settings in the radio and FM software. I had to set the elevator as reverse in the radio before I could get it right with the FM software switching.

All's well that ends well, eh? Thanks again for your help.

[Ivor Hill]

Originally Posted by Gosub

Hi Ivor,
I have left hand servo in 1, right servo in 2. The mixing was turned off in the radio right from the start, but I assumed that all the servos needed to be set to normal in the radio, and that reverse switching was done in the FM software.

It looks like some fiddling is needed between the rev/nor servo settings in the radio and FM software. I had to set the elevator as reverse in the radio before I could get it right with the FM software switching.

All's well that ends well, eh? Thanks again for your help.

Hi I am always puzzled by servo settings in the radio because if you test it you will find that when flymentor is connected reversing a servo in the radio does not change the direction of one servo, it actually changes the stick direction same as control tab in the software well at least it does with futaba. You can change,for example the stick direction of aileron in the radio and then put it back in the software (control tab). Next time you connect to the software try it you will be suprised, you can set the servos in any position in the radio and then change it back in the software. By the way pitch in control tab changes the direction of collective or throttle stick as some guys call it.
If you get a chance try it and let me know how you get on, because I would like convermation of this from some one. Several guys have told me that they have had to change servo direction on there radios and I just dont understand it because I can set the servos in any direction in the radio and still set flymentor up. I am wondering whether it is that servo reverse works differently in other makes of radio, I wish i could get hold of a dx7 for an hour but I dont know any body who has one. Please put it to the test if you can. Happy flying Ivor.

[mastmalang70]

hello
i have a problem setting up FM , i setup according to what it was in the post but the controls are opposite when i do left roll it goes forward and vice versa
im using dx6i and spectrum AR6200 my heli was setted before i setup FM
any advice guys

[Thx1326]

Ivor... great help with this - you should be commended highly for your efforts... now my question:

If I have a 9 channel receiver... I should be able to set up one of the 3 position switches for center=off, down=position hold, up=horizontal hold?

If I use my own tail gyro: I should be able to program one of the two knobs as a gain control for my gyro so I can fine tune once off the ground? If I have a second knob, I should be able to program it as a gain (adjustment) for the FM?

Does this make sense?

Thanks in advance.

[Ivor Hill]

Originally Posted by Thx1326

Ivor... great help with this - you should be commended highly for your efforts... now my question:

If I have a 9 channel receiver... I should be able to set up one of the 3 position switches for center=off, down=position hold, up=horizontal hold?

If I use my own tail gyro: I should be able to program one of the two knobs as a gain control for my gyro so I can fine tune once off the ground? If I have a second knob, I should be able to program it as a gain (adjustment) for the FM?

Does this make sense?

Thanks in advance.

Thank you, The simple answer is yes but what radio are you useing. vor

[Thx1326]

Originally Posted by Ivor Hill

Thank you, The simple answer is yes but what radio are you useing. vor

I have a new FS-TH9x on the way. It is basically the same as the iMax or Turnigy. The manual is a little bit quirky but most of the reports for this are very good. I happen to be able to pick up the 2.4ghz TX, RX, Modules and Battery pack for $105.00 new in the box. Couldn't pass it up. See it here: http://www.rcmodelpart.com/product.php?id_product=597

You can also download a copy of the manual at the same site.

Thanks again.

[Thx1326]

Originally Posted by Thx1326

I have a new FS-TH9x on the way. It is basically the same as the iMax or Turnigy. The manual is a little bit quirky but most of the reports for this are very good. I happen to be able to pick up the 2.4ghz TX, RX, Modules and Battery pack for $105.00 new in the box. Couldn't pass it up. See it here: http://www.rcmodelpart.com/product.php?id_product=597

You can also download a copy of the manual at the same site.

Thanks again.

I'll be using a GY401 on a Dynam E-Razor Metal 450.

[Ivor Hill]

Originally Posted by Thx1326

Ivor... great help with this - you should be commended highly for your efforts... now my question:

If I have a 9 channel receiver... I should be able to set up one of the 3 position switches for center=off, down=position hold, up=horizontal hold?

If I use my own tail gyro: I should be able to program one of the two knobs as a gain control for my gyro so I can fine tune once off the ground? If I have a second knob, I should be able to program it as a gain (adjustment) for the FM?

Does this make sense?

Thanks in advance.

Hi No I do not think you will be able to programe the knobs they are there to fine tune for hovering. But I may be wrong.
Using an external gyro is not a problem,You just disconnect the servo from flymentor and connect the gyro and servo in the normal way and control the gain from the transmitter.
The manual does not actually say that you can set an aux channel to a 3 position switch but you probably can and then use end points to control the gain. Read my thread on gyro gains and end points. Hope this helps Ivor

[Ivor Hill]

Originally Posted by Thx1326

I have a new FS-TH9x on the way. It is basically the same as the iMax or Turnigy. The manual is a little bit quirky but most of the reports for this are very good. I happen to be able to pick up the 2.4ghz TX, RX, Modules and Battery pack for $105.00 new in the box. Couldn't pass it up. See it here: http://www.rcmodelpart.com/product.php?id_product=597

You can also download a copy of the manual at the same site.

Thanks again.

Just a warning, I ordered £191 worth of goods from this company on the 15 November and never received them and so far had not returned my money, I will never deal with them again. Be carefull. Ivor

[PaulDh]

Hi Ivor,

Great info. Looks to me there are many ways to setup for the FM.

I seem to differ in some parts and I have been struggling to get my head around seeting up to use the DX7's Gyro Sensing capabiliteis in conjunction with the FM.

Firstly, My DX7 Reversing SW are setup as follows:

Thro - Norm

All the rest of the channels are Reversed.

MIX 1

GEAR > AUX2 ON
RATE 0%
-ve 65%

SW:ON
OFFSET: 0

MIX 2

AUX2 > AUX2 ON
RATE -ve 100%
-ve 10%

SW:ON
OFFSET: 0

This I picked up from another thread and the mixing allows me to do the following:

Gear & AUX2 switches combined (AUX2=Reversed)

Gear Switch OFF (0) + AUX2 Switch OFF (0) = Mormal Mode (gain on Gyro Setting)
Gear Switch ON (1) + AUX2 Switch OFF (0) = Balancing Mode (Gainapprox. -70)
Gear Switch OFF (1) = Aux2 Switch ON (1) = Position Mode (Gain approx. +ve 90)


I don't fully understand this but nevertheless I get a Steady RED led when both the AUX2 and GEAR switches are at "0", a steady GREEN + RED led when the GEAR switch is at "1" and the AUX2 Switch is at "0", and a flickering GREEN led when the AUX2 switch is at "1" and the GEAR switch is at "0".

I have my connections from the FM to AR7000RX connected correctly. Blue to the AUX2 channel and Green to the GEAR channel.

I have the FM mounted on an E325 with a quad blade rotor head from RCAerodyne. The mechanics will eventually fit into a Helibody (HeliArtist) Agusta A109 scale body.

The swash moves in the correct direction when tested using the above configuration as does the tail servo.

My question is how do you also enable Gyro Sensing on the transmitter. Since the AUX2 switch is being used in the above setup I am unable to use gyro sensing as the AUX2 switch needs to be assigned to the Gyro Channel on the DX7.

Is this necessary? From previous threads it appears that FM only works one way or another either using Helibalance or the TX to set your gain.
.

My settings within Heli Balance are as follows:


Mounting Tab

Orientation Front
Direction Right
Swash 3s120deg

Servo Tab

Servo 1 Nor
Servo 2 Rev
Servo 3 Nor
Servo 4 -
Tail Servo Nor

Control Tab

Ail - Nor Travel 100
Elev - Rev Travel 100
Pitch - Rev Travel 100
Yaw - Nor

Tail Gyro Tab

Sense - 70
Rate - 9
Exp - 3
Pitch/Tail Mix - 0
Travel Limit - 70

Gain - 4
Delay - 6
HH Angle -6

Advance Tab

Balancer Gain - 70
Roll Attitude - 5

Horiz/Pos Mode

Sensor Gain -8
Stick Gain - 5

Pos Mode Only

Sens. Gain - 8
Freewheel - 8

Expert Settings

Override - 5
Elev - 7

Stick Resp - 8
Pos Speed - 8


I believe these are mostly default settings.

I still trying to get my head around a lot of this and your guidance will be much appreciated.

Paul

[Ivor Hill]

Hi paul. We have been here before, I dont have a DX7, I use a futaba c7 and c9 So not sure if I can help. Trooper has posted some help for the dx7 so read his post it might help. I dont like the system or useing two switches to complicated for me.
On my C7 I have a 3 position switch normaly use for idle up I assign it to channel 7 and then use end points to control the gain. Read post Flymentor gyro gains v/s end points I provided some setting there. This is how I flew my Heliartist jetranger but truth is once the gains are set it,s not necassary to change them and I only ever flew in positional mode.
I then also purchased a heliartist A109 with retracts and I wanted to use channel 7 for the retracts, so I started useing the software gains, no problem.
In my opinion it is more important to have gain control on the tail than it is flymentor. I would switch the radio channel 5 to normal.
I do think you are making hard work of it. Like me you fly scale helis so you will not want to invert so forget switching flymentor on and off. I fly in position mode all the time in positional mode flymentor will auto switch between positional and balance depending on how high it is, the switching point is about 10 feet. The only down side is that you need to keep conecting to your pc dueing your test flights to set the best gains.But once set to your satisfaction you will not change it again. If I remmber correctly I had balancer gain set at + 75 and total sensor gain set at 10 all other setting on that page were presets.
Add 40% expo on ail,ele and rudder and the heli will be very controlable, you will be able to crawl around 2 inches off the ground or fly very scale like 100 feet up.
You may have read that you should not take off in positional mode well I have done it hundreds of time with no problem. I think to reason for this is that if the gain is set to high the heli will dance trying to find level and there is a risk that the blades will strike the ground,so if the heli does dance reduce the gain a little at a time untill it stops.
What ever you decide I advise everybody to disconnect the blue wire and use software preset gains for the first flights,it,s safer. Please bare in mind that I am useing normal 2 blade heads and flymentor is not designed for flybarless.
It is something I will try this year but will probably use the copterx flapping hinge design I think it has a better chance of working. Hope this helps and let me know how you get on.
Good luck Ivor

[PaulDh]

Hi Ivor

Thanks - I flight tested the e325 and seems to work OK. I had a bit of the "dancing" you described in an earlier post but like you said adjust the gain using software till it stops. Otherwise it seemed to fly Ok. It flys OK in balance mode. A bit gusty and 34C outside so a bit hot and windy for me!

Below is a link to a build log that I started on my project. My P&S digital camera is being repaired so I'll have some photographs of my progress posted in my thread in the next couple of weeks when I get it back and maybe a video of the E325 flying. Next step will be installing it in the scale body once I am happy with the mech's.

http://www.scalerchelis.com/phpBB2/v...p?f=24&t=10976

Thanks again for your help.

Regards,

Paul

[Fahnder]

Hello
I've just tested the mentor with my 450 T-rex. flybarless. Because of weather, i could only test in my livingroom. So i switched on the horizontal mode and it flies. What would happen, if i try this in positioning mode. The ccd is flimmering, cause is has less light. Does mentor automatically switch to horizontal mode or does it switch off ?

Thomas

[mastmalang70]

Hi
the green light flicker when its on the ground ,make it to go 1 meter above ground the light should go solid ,and make sure its very bright in the room ,use a halogen lamp so the CCD can get a contrast
check this out also
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1152984

[Fahnder]

Hi
Yeah, these things you told me, i still know. But what does mentor do, when there is not enough light. Does it switch to balance mode or does it switch OFF ?

[mastmalang70]

it stays in balance mode , it keep the model upright and it drifts alot ,thats my experience

[Fahnder]

Thank you. Staying in balance and drifting is okay. Before i had the Flym on the t-rex, he was drifting always, with this i can live. Then i will go for a test with the 4-blade roorhead.

Thomas