Blade 500 3D Gyro Problem?

[KSKen]

I have a Blade 500 3D I've been flying for about 2-1/2 yrs now and last week while doing some trimming inside our large hanger the heli started a small right turn-slowly-that I countered with left stick and found out that it required about half left to keep tail straight and in just a brief second it got worse so fast it was spinning faster than I could even believe, luckily I was dead-tight in hover about 3ft In Idle-up (FM) and I just lowered enough as to not plant it into concrete and flipped back to norm and powered down. This has the original 210 Eflight Gyro and my guess was it just signed off.
I had a spare (new) 210, installed, set up per manual, centered everything and made sure pitch slider centered, set travel with Gyro with values plugged in on rudder ch. as manual states. Put a fresh batt in, spooled up and just barely shy of half stick power/collective, tail went 180 degs FAST to right then about 90 degs back left.
I noted rudder movement on monitor during spool-up and it never moved on second attempt but servo goes to full left after power down. with DX7s stick centered, servo is at full travel left, move stick left nothing happens, move stick right servo goes full right. Release stick to center servo goes full left. So I tried a JR G370 3D Gyro which states rudder travel to 120% and dial travel with Gyro. I center everything again, set Gyro at specified 73% gain, normal mode, spool up, same exact scenario??? I changed out original H400 servo and tried a 410-same deal. I tried a H6210 HV MG recommended by Customer support-still same scenario. I've balanced main and tail blades checked every part I can for vibration but heli is flat smooth. If anybody has a clue where to go with this, I would be VERY GREATFUL as Horizon tech support has NO answer to this other that a potential problem with Transmitter. (DX7s NIB 3 months ago).

[PTFlyer]

I'd check the one way bearing.....it may not be locking up consistently...

I'd also check the tail drive gears...if it has a TT...I'd check the drive gear is not slipping on it's shaft....I'd also check the TT ends to make sure it didn't break free from the tube and is spinning ....

Just a few things to check as I can't see all those gyros and servos all being bad ...


but that wouldn't account for the rudder going hard over....very curious....


do you have the servo Freq. set for the tail servo?
H6210 HV
Frequency: 333Hz
Center Position: 1520µs

[Solmanbandit]

It could be that your gyro is not set up properly. It could be reversed. Is your heli flybarred?

[Uriah]

The Blade 500 3D is flybarred. I own one. It's a great heli but does have some tail issues in stock configuration. The bird suffers from major static buildup issues that can cause the gyro to go haywire, especially in weather with little humidity. First, ground the tail boom to the motor mount. Second, lubricate the belt with silicone spray. Third, dynamically balance the tail assembly under full load using scotch tape. For details, head over to the Blade 500X/3D forum here on HeliFreak and we'll help you out. There's lots of info on these topics in that forum.

[KSKen]

Uriah, I have tried all but a bond strap boom to mount, that you mention. I also installed new (Alum) blade grips, bearings and the drive belt. Now, I have balanced several sets of mains and TR blades during this issue. It has been flawless for the better part of 2-1/2 yrs so to think I have static build-up "now" causing issues when we are at our highest humidity of the year, I don't quite follow logic on that.
The main item of change has been the DX7s, but I have not went back to DX6i to see if problem still exists but I do have a DX8 NIB I'm thinking of trying. Horizon said it could possibly be a pot in Tx but I see no movement of rudder channel in Monitor screen during spool up.

[elan]

Since you changed your tx and the problem started it's probably tx related?

[KSKen]

elan, that's what really scares me...I also have my 550X on the same radio and I've been flying it.....until Horizon suggested it may be the transmitter...lol.
Ya know...ice fishing is a safe sport...HHUMMMMMmmmm.

[KSKen]

I hope this works....
link to video of what it does...
Link has yet to process as of 8:54 MT.

Blade 500 serious issues (3 min 14 sec)

[KSKen]

Found tonight that even though after spool-down, servo is full stop left, if I unplug batt and plug back in, after it initializes, slider centers itself, and if you spool up it has full and correct TR authority until the sweet spot at half-stick, the crap cuts loose.
I'm at a point where I think I'll Bind it to the new DX8 and see what happens...might answer other questions in itself.

[Uriah]

If your DX8 isn't showing any unwanted movement on your rudder channel, I'm inclined to think it's not the transmitter. However, if you do indeed have access to another transmitter for testing purposes, it certainly won't hurt to give another transmitter a try. Also, since you've already tried a different servo, I'm inclined to think it's not your servo.

I still wouldn't rule out the possibility of static buildup. Here's a post (link) demonstrating how severe of a problem static buildup on the Blade 500 X/3D can be. The weather, condition of your belt, gyro mounting location, gyro pad, etc. can impact how big of a problem static buildup can be; regardless, it can be very random and can happen unexpectedly. The static problem is more common on the 500 3D than on the 500X due to the stock mounting locations of the G210 and AR7200BX. The 500X has the AR7200BX mounted on the lower tray farther away from the tail boom, so unless the pilot moves it to the upper tray like in that video, static problems are a lot less likely on the 500X. Again, 2 1/2 years of good flying or not, I wouldn't rule out static buildup for a second; and of course we can't rule out the possibility that the gyro itself may have simply kicked the bucket. Even if static buildup was not causing a tail blowout for the last 2 1/2 years, static electricity may have still been reaching your gyro's circuitry and eventually damaged some of the components. I never liked the G210 to begin with, and fly my 500 3D with a Futaba GY520 and Savox SH-1290MG. You can get a Spartan Quark or Futaba GY520 for less than $50 shipped if you post in the WTB forum here on HeliFreak; they're light years ahead of the G210 in the performance department. I had three random total tail blowouts on my 500 3D when I first bought it, and I traced it to static buildup (plus the fact that the G210 is a POS).

For reference purposes, here is a post (link) with some pics of my own anti-static mod on my Blade 500 3D.

Originally Posted by Blade550X

Found tonight that even though after spool-down, servo is full stop left, if I unplug batt and plug back in, after it initializes, slider centers itself, and if you spool up it has full and correct TR authority until the sweet spot at half-stick, the crap cuts loose.
I'm at a point where I think I'll Bind it to the new DX8 and see what happens...might answer other questions in itself.

I have a bird that has a servo initialization problem. It's a Lynxed 300X (virtually all aftermarket parts) and the KST DS215MG tail servo sometimes won't initialize when I plug the battery in (meaning it won't respond to any input). I occasionally have to unplug the battery and try again to get the servo to initialize. This isn't a "freak accident" and is a known issue with some servo, BEC, and receiver configurations. Once the servo initializes, I don't need to worry about it and can fly without concern. On the same token, this may be happening with your G210 gyro - it may not be initializing properly. This may be an indication of gyro failure or BEC problems. The BEC may no longer be sending a stable enough current during the initialization process, or if the gyro itself has some failing components. And again, those failing components may be a result of unwanted static electricity. If the G210 is indeed initializing properly but comes down all funky and uninitialized, I'm still inclined to think it's static buildup causing an in-flight reset, or actual static damage.

[KSKen]

I'll ground the boom and re-bind and see what happens...I hope I haven't fried the JR Gyro as well as the 2 210's in trouble-shooting???
Thanks for your input, I'll report back later today.

[KSKen]

Ok, to all that helped with this, Thank you!!!!
I grounded boom to motor mount bolt and re-bound receiver. Heli run up, ground check perfect, flight test went without a hitch! I'm so happy I could crap feathers....:-))
You folks DO know what you're talking about and now I hope to hang around and learn more. Thanks guys, so much!
This was with JR Gyro still installed and H410 (new) servo, so now I'm wondering if the old H400 really did crap out?>?>?
One happy Dude!!

[Uriah]

Excellent! I'm glad that has apparently fixed your problem! Be sure to keep us posted of the status once you've got a few more flights on it with the anti-static mod in place.

[KSKen]

I've been so wrapped up in figuring this out, I've been blinded by a couple of things...
1st is I recently moved back to my hometown out here in western KS and have not flown this here but maybe 3 times prior to the trouble. I moved from SW MO where the humidity can be cut with a knife and here, well...there just isn't any, so I would have likely not had this problem in a high humidity situation-or didn't have-but it showed up here. I was honestly so scared silly I was ready to sell all my helis over this deal. I haven't had any of those horrid gory type crashes (I know-those that have and those that will) and just feel lucky being self taught especially after 40 years of fixed-wing R/C at competition level the last 12.
I really like the helis and hope to move on up to some bad-boy stuff soon, this deal just freaked me out, afraid of putting so much money in the dirt, yet I have no problem with an 8000$ giant scale hovering at a foot in fixed wing???? The mind does funny things...

[KSKen]

I've got 9 full flights now without incident. I've been back to playing with different gain settings and have yet to notice an issue so this may quite well have taken care of the problem. I did go back and loosen the front aluminum servo mount arm for the tail servo and lightly sanded the coating off of boom where mount arm sets to make sure it did have good metal to metal contact, other than that, that's it and all seems good.
Thanks again folks, for all the good help.

[KSKen]

Got about 30 flights in now with no run-away tail issues but I did have a Batt come un-plugged today, Twice, and I can't figure out how. 1st time was just inches off the ground and the 2nd, about 100ft up....lol...
Deans connectors.. Never had that issue but from 100ft it still hit gear flat, busted them and broke 1 blade grip. About a 35$ crash and my first in 3 years so I had it coming I guess?

[Uriah]

Well I'm glad you got your gyro issue fixed! On my Blade 500 3D, I ditched the EC3 connectors and replaced them with EC5 connectors (so I could use the batteries on other birds using EC5s). I've never been a fan of Deans because it's hard to know when they're starting to get worn out. Deans will work fine for ages and then all of the sudden the connector starts getting lose and you lose contact during flight just long enough to cause your FBL unit, gyro, or receiver to reset.



I prefer EC3 and EC5 on all of my birds. A lot of guys like the XT60s as well. I suppose Deans work great so long as you replace them before they start getting too worn.

[KSKen]

Yeah, I think how I've gotten by for so long, I'm sure you're right, it's time to change out the ESC side for sure... I bought 3 new batts when I moved back out here and when I plug in to charger the batts connectors are tight and the ESC side "seems" snug enough but obviously it's time to change it.
On another note, it's obvious that rotation of the main rotor head (inertia) tears up more equipment than one might think because I still can't believe this heli fell 100ft and just broke the gear and 1 main grip but the blades were limp when she hit-almost appeared to be slo-mo...

[KSKen]

Decided after reading more on the forums here to get the aluminum tail assembly and Main bld grips. Test flight ~~~~ok~~~~, kind of. Now I have a bit of tail wag I can't get rid of.. Gain doesn't seem to make things any different. I was about 70-71 with the JR370 and I've dropped to 64 with no change, I've went back through rigging, checked for any binding and can't find any smoking gun. It's just not rock solid like it was. it flies fine but I can see the wag come and go-not aggressive but obvious.????

[Uriah]

Here's some initial thoughts that came to mind that may be of help:

A) Is the tail wag more of a slow "hunting" type of wag?

B) Did you by any chance change the hole on the tail servo horn that the pushrod is using? This will affect your mechanical gain, which can cause tail hunting.

C) Is the tail vibrating at all? Do you hear a buzz or see any "blur" in the tail fin? If you have reason to believe there are any abnormal tail vibrations whatsoever, stop flying immediately and dynamically balance the tail assembly using these instructions (link). Tail vibrations can most certainly cause a hunting or wag behavior and need to be fixed immediately. You don't want to throw a tail blade!

D) Be sure not to over-tighten your tail blades on the tail grips. They should be tight enough for the blade to not "fall" on their own when they're in a horizontal position.

E) Be sure your belt isn't too tight. The Blade 500X / 3D likes a really loose belt.