Tail control when flybarless?

[catfight]

If you convert your bird to flybarless (by whatever means - gyro, mechanical or both) is the tail control still considered an independent control element or does it often get "mixed" in with ail/ele systems?

[MarkWebber]

Tail control will be the same, regardless. Flybars are just a mechanical gyro, afterall. We're just replacing it with electronics.

[Ticidytoc]

Originally Posted by catfight

If you convert your bird to flybarless (by whatever means - gyro, mechanical or both) is the tail control still considered an independent control element or does it often get "mixed" in with ail/ele systems?

With the V-stabi system it is part of the 3 axis. So ail/elev/rudder are all in one. With the CSM you will have independent gyros on ail/elev and then your 601/611 or 720 on tail.

Matt

[catfight]

ticidytoc,

Are they actually mixed in some way or is the gyro just in the same box?

[Ticidytoc]

With the v-stabi its all in one box with one external sensor. the sensor is smaller than the 601/611 and handles all 3 axis. very compact and mixing/params. all set in the software. keeps wiring neat. with the csm if you have ccpm, i believe you will need a cyclock, 2-3 720 gyros, and have a lot of 3 cond. wire running from each gyro to the cyclock. if using mech. mixing like the raptor i believe you will not need the cyclock unit, just the 3 gyros for each axis.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about the CSM system.

-Matt

[fireup]

Even though the V-stabi has a single unit sensor with three gyros in it, the tail gyro has no bearing in the mixing of the control system of the cyclic, the tail is independent.

I'm flying 2 CSM720 and Cyclock on the head and using 611 on the tail.

You're right on Matt.

[ulrich99]

Hi Kevin,

No, thats not correct for vbar, but it is for others afaik.

VBar is a System, where all inputs from the sensors are used together for optimal performance. So its not the same as independant gyros. In VBar the tail sensor delivers information to the cyclic system, and vice versa. The most simple example is the troque compensation, which is not fed by the stick inputs, but the real deflection of the swashplate. This can differ becuase of the control loops corrections. This makes the performance of VBars tail gyro superior to other gyros, and this is only one simple example...

If you want to know more details, visit the vbar wiki at http://www.vstabi.de/wiki

[catfight]

thanks ulrich!

[fireup]

Thanks ulrich for clearing it up. Now this makes me wonder how effective it is compare to the independent gyros. I know the air pressure sensor was another input sensor that ended up not being a required feature.

[NTM]

I've found the v-bar's tail gyro to be very superior to my futaba 611's performance because of the integration with the swash gyros. There's obvious communication happening between the three gyro axis' when you're flying.

The air pressure sensors are still needed for multibladed heads.

[catfight]

NTM,

V-stabi site says "29.07.2007 New Version (3.6) is online!

- New Algorithm makes pressure sensor obsolete
- real CCPM Geomety correction, usable on 4-servo Swashplates.
- better piruettes in windy conditions
- tons of ther enhancements

Do you know otherwise?

[NTM]

Originally Posted by catfight

NTM,

V-stabi site says "29.07.2007 New Version (3.6) is online!

- New Algorithm makes pressure sensor obsolete
- real CCPM Geomety correction, usable on 4-servo Swashplates.
- better piruettes in windy conditions
- tons of ther enhancements

Do you know otherwise?

In regards to the air pressure sensors ?
You don't need the pressure sensors anymore on a traditional two bladed head (my v-bar was one of the newer, cheaper ones without the pressure sensors), but according to the manual they're still required for three, or more, bladed heads.

[Dr_Fibinotchi]

AM I wrong to assume that the tail atleast portion of the Vbar has temp compensation like the 611 has?

-Cody

[NTM]

Not sure what temp compensation your refering to, but I've flown in a wide temperature range, down to -8 degrees celsius without issue.
The tail seems better than with a 611 regardless of temperature. The cyclic gyros seem unaffected as well.

Regards,
Nathan

[Dr_Fibinotchi]

I know that when I take my birds for a spin here in this cold tundra SD weather from my vehicle out to the cold the gyros seem to have a problem holding and drift a little unless they are let sit out for a couple minutes. I know I am not the first to see this. The 611 was advertised as tempeture compensated which would fix this.


-Cody

[OICU812]

There is no problem flying Vstabi in colder weather, at least I know this to be true to around -7 and no issue. :wink: