Piro Tic Toc

[boogie12]

Just wondering if anyone has a video link with instructions on how to do this maneuver. I have been flying cp helicopters for about 4 years and I'm looking for new maneuvers to try. I am a 3D pilot and can do almost any maneuver with a little practice on the SIM I just need visual instructions on how it's done. Any help you guys can provide is greatly appreciated.

[MotorG525]

For left rudder it's a clockwise stir in the top right almost like a half piro flip "tik", (you'll end up inverted and tail in) the difference is that when you want to complete the "tok" instead of a stir in the bottom left you would stir in the top right again (you'll end up nose in right side up). If you do this quickly you can keep the heli in a knife edgy attitude so it's like a tik tok, while your learning it won't look like much. Also you must start from nose in orientation for skids out piro tik tok, tail in for skids in. Opposite for right rudder, counter clockwise stir in the top right but start tail in for skids out, nose in for skids in

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by boogie12

Just wondering if anyone has a video link with instructions on how to do this maneuver. I have been flying cp helicopters for about 4 years and I'm looking for new maneuvers to try. I am a 3D pilot and can do almost any maneuver with a little practice on the SIM I just need visual instructions on how it's done. Any help you guys can provide is greatly appreciated.

Start with a slow piro rainbow (one tail rotation per side). To keep it smooth it's like an extended piro-flip but only from upright to inverted.

The tricky part is doing the second part of the rainbow back. It's a piro-flip, but in the OPPOSITE direction (you are reversing the flip, not the tail direction - think of it like front prio-flipping to back piro-flipping).

As you get the rainbows following a line, just tighten them up to make them faster and shallower angle.

Some of the best prio tic-tocs I have seen IRL are done by mode 1 pilots. They cannot stir, but need to juggle ail on right and ele on left. (it's like a Z pattern on the right hand) In short, they must fly the move, not just stir then reverse stir.

Best of luck.

[FailureToFly]

Listen to ArchmageAu, do not stir!!

Which ever way you do them (disc in or disc out) you keep the disc always moving in the same plane (back/forth disc in or disc out).

Learn to fly the move and progress from quarter piro tic tocs, to half and then full ones.

Piro rainbows will provide great control as you need to make lots of little corrections. The hard back and forth piro tic tocs are hard to do quite stationary without wondering and losing/gaining height.

Good piro flip skills are required for good piro tic tocs (stationary 'double' piro flips - never know how many degrees per half flip to write! ).

It's also essential to make controlled (thought out) corrections in all four orientations to keep them from moving around. IMHO you need solid stationary tic toc skills before undertaking them if you want them to be in any way coherent.

It's a truly awesome move but I've only seen one person totally nail piro tic tocs...he's a mode 1 flyer at our club.

My personal heli dream is to be able to do them like I can do them on the sim low IRL. They are a very aggressive move and you so rarely see them performed right in front of you in this fashion.

[Obijuan Kenobe]

The master of this move, Duncan Boission, is a Mode 1 flyer.

That guy practically redefined this move, as his are truly rotating at a constant yaw rate and near vertical/knife edge and stationary, rather than pausing on the top or bottom like many just manage to do.

obi

[MotorG525]

The op is from pa, he's more then likely flying mode 2. He has to stir, ele and aile are on the same stick.

[boogie12]

Originally Posted by MotorG525

The op is from pa, he's more then likely flying mode 2. He has to stir, ele and aile are on the same stick.

Yup I'm flying mode 2 and I ended up downloading the smack talk tic toc video and have a better understanding of how the piro tic toc is done. But I think the way you described how to do it makes more sense so when I get home I'm going to try it out on the SIM. I think I may have been over complicating the maneuver

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by MotorG525

The op is from pa, he's more then likely flying mode 2. He has to stir, ele and aile are on the same stick.

Yep, OP is mode 2, but the idea is not to "stir", but to "control".

Do not think of it as "stir", but as flying through each point. The fact as you smoothly transition from one point to the next is a approximately a circle on right stick in mode 2 is irrelevant. You need to adjust how far to go in each direction (and at what time) constantly in relation to what the heli is doing in the air (and these corrections must become instinctive).

Some piro-flip with the tail going very fast and just use the elevator at the correct times to move the heli (see DoubleCH in another thread). The result still looks good, but it's not a "stir". Another example in Duncan's donughts (blur-piro circle). Apparently it's just elevator taps in perfect synchronization to the heli's position in space.

You choose how many points to add the corrections on.

Ideally, start slow and speed up.

[MotorG525]

I understand what your getting at but I think we don't understand each other because of the word stir. It's being improperly used in this application, outside of its "websters" definition per say. I am using it to convey a circular motion while it seems you are implying that a stir is like "flying blind" or guessing where the stick should be

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by MotorG525

I understand what your getting at but I think we don't understand each other because of the word stir. It's being improperly used in this application, outside of its "websters" definition per say. I am using it to convey a circular motion while it seems you are implying that a stir is like "flying blind" or guessing where the stick should be

Yep, Some people learn to blindly stir (and time the blind stir) instead of flying the points.

When flying the points in mode 2, it becomes a stir. So, it's just a friendly reminder to work forwards to a stir, not backwards from it.

[FailureToFly]

When anyone generally says 'stir' they mean do it blindly until you get a timing/rhythm happening rather than actually flying every single point of the move.

I understand you saying it differently though many piro moves in mode 2 are learned this way like piro flips, piro circuits, piro tic tocs and you never truly are flying the move if you just 'stir'.

That is why many people say 'fly the move' and use the individual controls so you learn exactly what you are doing. One of the 'joys' of mode 1 I guess is you need to do just this...a curse and a blessing in one...?

...

Obi...

Yes Dunkan is the best at half piro tic tocs out of anyone I've seen. You shouldn't pause on them though it's hard to do them super quick and stationary.

[DoubleCH]

Originally Posted by ArchmageAU

...Duncan's donughts (blur-piro circle)...

Is it just me or does anybody else also think of Dunkin' Donuts?

[DoubleCH]

This is true story. One day out of the blue I just felt like doing some piros between aileron tic-tocs and this is what it came out (at about 0:30, that's after a few ugly ones that I did a few days prior). I'll try to do the other half to connect the two, but I know the other way will be harder because I don't piro-flip the rotor disc towards me.

My Stretched Protos Flying Easy with Turnigy 20C 2650 (5 min 42 sec)

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by DoubleCH

Is it just me or does anybody else also think of Dunkin' Donuts?

That's intentional (this way you remember it).

But it's really this: (time mark 2:49)

Duncan Bossion | Zone Village 2014 Amazing! (3 min 52 sec)

or:



I'm sure others can find better videos of it.

[Kap'n Krunch]

Originally Posted by boogie12

Just wondering if anyone has a video link with instructions on how to do this maneuver. I have been flying cp helicopters for about 4 years and I'm looking for new maneuvers to try. I am a 3D pilot and can do almost any maneuver with a little practice on the SIM I just need visual instructions on how it's done. Any help you guys can provide is greatly appreciated.

seems to me this should be a no brainer with your skills

[Kap'n Krunch]

here number 21 the singapore sling is the closest i can find

http://www.fly3dx.com/setManoeuvres.php

[MotorG525]

This is where im at right now after about a month, it should help you get a better idea. The video is not the best I threw it together in 10 mins and just uploaded it.

[boogie12]

Originally Posted by Kap'n Krunch

seems to me this should be a no brainer with your skills

Well not really I fly okay but this particular maneuver really screwed with me lol. I tried it on the SIM for a while tonight and I'm starting to get it but it's not 100% and it probably wouldn't be a good idea to try it IRL just yet.

[boogie12]

Originally Posted by MotorG525

This is where im at right now after about a month, it should help you get a better idea. The video is not the best I threw it together in 10 mins and just uploaded it.

Thanks for posting the video. When I was trying the piro tic toc tonight I noticed that I can get away with not using any aft elevator if I key on the nose during the maneuver. What it seems like to me is if steer the cyclic with the nose at 12 o clock from forward elevator to right aileron and do the same when it reaches the 6 o clock point it looks very similar to how Dunkan does his piro tic toc.

[MotorG525]

Yes it like a piro flip you have to learn to key on the nose and tail, learning the stir comes in handy when you want to start moving the heli around so you can progress to a London eye and such