First Loop with Raptor 90

[AzChopp3r]

Had fun today, almost crashed it. But hey you gotta start somewhere. Weather man called for winds at 4-6mph today so we all went out to fly our big helis. Weatherman was off by about 10 MPH at least.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4vXS6hVXfM[/ame]

[dannylightning]

Originally Posted by AzChopp3r

Had fun today, almost crashed it. But hey you gotta start somewhere. Weather man called for winds at 4-6mph today so we all went out to flew our big helis. Weatherman was off by about 10 MPH at least.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4vXS6hVXfM

holy crap. watching that almost gave me a heart attack. you were way to low to the ground when you started, flips at that altitude are ok but not loops unless you climb like crazy into the loop. you are very lucky and i am sure you already know this.

how ever the loop looked great. good job, are you gonna try one again any time soon. ??

[AzChopp3r]

Needed more negative pitch at the apex which would have ended the loop higher off the ground. Yes I plan on more, just need to sim it a bit more as I would hate to crash this thing.

[TCipolla]

Hey there, keep at it! Just start a little higher next time!

[Jeff_Barrett]

"How close was that to the ground"

Almost too close!!! LOL!!!

[millman]

Brave brave man. Well done.Im learning with the same heli,raptor 90 se, but dont yet have the nerve to do that.

[AzChopp3r]

Originally Posted by millman

Brave brave man. Well done.Im learning with the same heli,raptor 90 se, but dont yet have the nerve to do that.

Ive got a post over in the turbine heli forum showing video of a guy named Arlo who showed up with his JetCat at our flying field last weekend. He is an excellant pilot but he also told me and I quote "...these things are made to eat dirt." He said that once you get over the fear of crashing your heli you will fly alot better and learn alot faster.

I agree with that but I also know with a big heli such as the 90 that a crash would be around a couple hundred bucks if you were lucky and in this economy that definately stings. So I did take a big risk and Im glad that it came out good and I learned alot from that one maneuver. God willing, I can keep having fun with these things for a long time!

[Ah Clem]

Glad you machine is ok sir.

Always nerve racking doing some of these things the first time.

I do, respectfully, disagree with this statement though:

"Needed more negative pitch at the apex which would have ended the loop higher off the ground."

You do not need or want negative pitch in a loop. You will, as you approach the top of the loop, want to back off the collective and might get down close to zero, but never do you want negative pitch in an inside loop. Centripetal force tries to pull the machine out of the loop, cyclic and positive pitch hold it into the loop.

You use negative pitch during a flip, but not a true loop. Negative pitch as you approach the top of a loop will slow the machine down, just when you want forward speed to carry it over the top and into the beginning of the descent.

You need more forward speed before entering a large loop. The Raptor 90 will loop very nicely (plenty of power and lots of inertia to carry it through). Entering from a high speed pass works-you can roll into a Split-S at one end of the field and, as the machine approaches the center of the field, use the speed gained to enter the loop.

Bigger diameter loops require higher speeds.

When you get into outside loops, and outside backwards loops, it gets even more interesting...

[AzChopp3r]

Originally Posted by Ah Clem

Glad you machine is ok sir.

Always nerve racking doing some of these things the first time.

I do, respectfully, disagree with this statement though:

"Needed more negative pitch at the apex which would have ended the loop higher off the ground."

You do not need or want negative pitch in a loop. You will, as you approach the top of the loop, want to back off the collective and might get down close to zero, but never do you want negative pitch in an inside loop. Centripetal force tries to pull the machine out of the loop, cyclic and positive pitch hold it into the loop.

You use negative pitch during a flip, but not a true loop. Negative pitch as you approach the top of a loop will slow the machine down, just when you want forward speed to carry it over the top and into the beginning of the descent.

You need more forward speed before entering a large loop. The Raptor 90 will loop very nicely (plenty of power and lots of inertia to carry it through). Entering from a high speed pass works-you can roll into a Split-S at one end of the field and, as the machine approaches the center of the field, use the speed gained to enter the loop.

Bigger diameter loops require higher speeds.

When you get into outside loops, and outside backwards loops, it gets even more interesting...

So looking at my loop is there a way to make it tighter or does speed determine the size of the loop? And by adding negative pitch the heli will slow down and turn into a sort of loop-flip as I have done alot this way with my 400. Not saying this is the correct way, Im just afraid of the ground! Thanks for the tips, I appreciate that.

[Ah Clem]

"So looking at my loop is there a way to make it tighter or does speed determine the size of the loop? And by adding negative pitch the heli will slow down and turn into a sort of loop-flip as I have done alot this way with my 400. Not saying this is the correct way, Im just afraid of the ground! Thanks for the tips, I appreciate that."

Speed and inertia will, to a large extent, determine the size of the loop. It is hard to tell from the video, but the diameter of the loop did not look bad, the machine just did not have the forward speed to carry it through properly and sort of fell out of the loop.

Practice really high up, until you get used to it. The Raptor 90 is very large, very easy to see, and very stable (excellent for this sort of thing). You can play with the amount of speed, cyclic, and collective to see how it behaves, and have altitude to pull it out if you get into trouble.

After you are really comfortable, you can bring the loops down (I still like to do them fairly high up).

[AnTi Taco]

so true once you get a crash under your belt with a new heli it makes learning on it so much easier

[dannylightning]

the further you pull the stick back the faster it will loop, also you can some what control how tight the loops is with the negative and positive pitch, its all about timing with you pitch.and how much stick you give it.

it did look like a nice tight loop tho. when i do a loop its often a big monster loop, i think those are more fun, i also do the tight ones too but not as often...

[TCipolla]

Originally Posted by dannylightning

the further you pull the stick back the faster it will loop, also you can some what control how tight the loops is with the negative and positive pitch, its all about timing with you pitch.and how much stick you give it.

it did look like a nice tight loop tho. when i do a loop its often a big monster loop, i think those are more fun, i also do the tight ones too but not as often...

Off topic...but I like your 500...pretty sharp!

[seanh]

Nice loops, just practice you'll get them.

positive...decrease positive as you get to the top...negative at the top then start applying positive (at least that's what I do)

What I started doing to help mine get a little tighter was to start doing flips then make long flips.

Too low? No way. You're not low til you start throwing up grass and dirt.

[AzChopp3r]

Originally Posted by seanh

Nice loops, just practice you'll get them.

positive...decrease positive as you get to the top...negative at the top then start applying positive (at least that's what I do)

What I started doing to help mine get a little tighter was to start doing flips then make long flips.

Too low? No way. You're not low til you start throwing up grass and dirt.

Ok so Ah Clem's reply on the first page of this thread makes more sense to me. If I have a forward loop in progress and at the apex, I add negative pitch, wont that add the the overall diameter of the loop? In which case of the one in my video the heli would have lawn darted itself in that field. I know as soon as the heli almost reached the apex or top of the loop I went to center stick and then back into full pitch as you can hear the blades chop.

[seanh]

Originally Posted by AzChopp3r

Ok so Ah Clem's reply on the first page of this thread makes more sense to me. If I have a forward loop in progress and at the apex, I add negative pitch, wont that add the the overall diameter of the loop? In which case of the one in my video the heli would have lawn darted itself in that field. I know as soon as the heli almost reached the apex or top of the loop I went to center stick and then back into full pitch as you can hear the blades chop.

When at the apex you're not atting very much negative pitch, just enough to hover so you'll be carried through the loop without falling.

You mentioned that you went to full pitch soon after center. That was probably too much pitch with not enough aileron causing you to start stalling the blades. The idea is to ease into negative then positive pitch

One technique that may help is to do the loops to the side of you so you can see the shape of the loop. Loops are about collective management. Too much negative or positive and you don't smooth loop.

Wish I could be more help but I'm still not that good yet.


Go look at the Flight School forum. I'm sure there are great instructions there.

[Ah Clem]

You use negative pitch at the top of a flip, not the top of a loop..

There are some pretty slow loops in this video, there is no negative pitch used in those loops (except for the outside loops, which use not positive:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0rdnasIj-U[/ame]

You will use negative pitch at the top of an Immelman or if you pause at the top of the loop.

[AzChopp3r]

Originally Posted by Ah Clem

You use negative pitch at the top of a flip, not the top of a loop..

There are some pretty slow loops in this video, there is no negative pitch used in those loops (except for the outside loops, which use not positive:

You will use negative pitch at the top of an Immelman or if you pause at the top of the loop.

Beautiful flying. The bigger birds are so much nicer to watch.

Sean, I was at full pitch and full elevator after it was inverted and when I seen that the loop was going to be close.

[Ah Clem]

"Sean, I was at full pitch and full elevator after it was inverted and when I seen that the loop was going to be close."

Full pitch at the top of the loop will pull the ship down towards the ground.

Do you have a simulator?

[AzChopp3r]

Originally Posted by Ah Clem

"Sean, I was at full pitch and full elevator after it was inverted and when I seen that the loop was going to be close."

Full pitch at the top of the loop will pull the ship down towards the ground.

Do you have a simulator?

Yep got a sim. Let me be clear. Started the loop, as the heli went inverted (top) I went to center collective stick, as the heli came around from the top I added pitch and when the nose was pointing straight down, I went to full pitch as it looked like it was going to be bad. The whole time I was at full rear cyclic.

So timing-wise as the whole thing happened pretty fast, by the time i started to add pitch the heli had cleared the apex and the nose was pointing down. By the time I went to full pitch, the heli was coming back around towards the botoom of the loop.