First flights Jive Pro 120 Pyro 750 comp.

[mahbouni]

I'm using my JPro in a Logo 600SX on 12s with 640mm blades. Full collective climbs pull about 150A. For this application I'm perfectly happy with it. I was using a HeliJ previously but I sent that back for repair (broken wire) and bought the JPro to keep me flying.

In terms of governor performance I don't really notice any difference between them. Both are excellent. What I prefer about the JPro is ability to program via Bluetooth with my phone. I was able to do a complete APM reset and reprogram mode 4 without having to disconnect anything. I will add that the HJive got a higher head speed. I had to go up a pinion size with the JPro.

[smsodhi]

Originally Posted by Vinger

Sad to see the end of telemetry yes, but JLog supports Hobbywing now, so maybe another avenue to explore.

It is very nice to see the Jlog support Hobbywing. Shame the hobbywing does not provide full information to the Jlog to allow it to give full telemetry at the moment, from what I have understood.

There is also the IISI telemetry system to be considered. I have been testing this with my Kosmiks and it is very good. In time I will decommission the Kosmiks and put on a different ESC and retain the logging and telemetry via the IISI

[crash at 42]

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=673993
Vinger
Why would your telemetry be gone. Just because Jlog is supporting another device doesnt mean they will or are abandoning kontronik just expanding.

[Vinger]

Originally Posted by crash at 42

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=673993
Vinger
Why would your telemetry be gone. Just because Jlog is supporting another device doesnt mean they will or are abandoning kontronik just expanding.

I know that, was meaning that if I fit a Scorpion ESC, no more telemetry.

[jmackey]

I've been a K fan for nearly 3 years now. PowerJive, HeliJive, Kosmik160 and 200...

Reduced power handling with the JivePro series is disappointing. The Kosmik is too big and expensive for some projects (like the 6S Logo 550SX I am spec'ing out now).

The new HV BEC is nice, but at this very premium price point, reducing performance is a real let down.

[crash at 42]

Jpro will handle logo 550 no problem im running one on a 600se works perfect.

[taosgraveyard]

While I think you are correct about it being to handle a 6s logo 550sx

Your reasoning... The example you give is not valid.... Amp draw on a 6S logo 550 is going to be HIGHER than on your 10s or 12s logo 600 SE ... Think about it... Lower voltage = more amps.

[jmackey]

Agreed. The amps will be high on the 6S 550SX.

I'm planning on using a KDE 600XF-1100-G3 rated for 112A/3325W continuous and 186A/5500W max for 2 seconds. My experience with KDE is that they deliver the rated power and then some.

I will not be easy on the sticks either.

[taosgraveyard]

Probably you'll be ok. My hit 690sx has hit a spike 200 during a flight with many spike to 175, according to jlog,... My spikes weren't two second long though... Yours probably won't be either??

[GimpyGolden]

This thread is making me nervous of using my JPro 80.
It will be going in a 12S Agile 5.5 running 570mm blade.
Maybe better off to try to sell it new and buy a 120A, what do you all think?
Motor is a Pyro 650 10+9 YY, 1.07mm (535Kv)

[mahbouni]

I have an 80HV in my Logo 12s 550SX. I have Rail 556mm blades with the Logo 600 blade grips, which are about 1cm longer. I've had head speeds as high as 2600rpm and the 80HV gets just luke warm.

I would be very surprised if you have problems with a Jive Pro 80 with your setup.

[taosgraveyard]

Sorry for off topic response

I'd be surprised too, on a 12S kds 550 consider the following

. I have 556 rails on my 6s kds 5.5. Same heli, smaller blades , different voltage, I am using a helijive. Even though your blades are longer and heavier, here's some data of interest

Remember this is 6s so 12 s amps for 12S would be 1/2

Looking at yesterday's log, average amp draw was around 50-60 amps.

Peaks were high, a couple of 180 amps and a couple 200 but remember this is 6S.

1/2 the flight pack voltage you are running, so for same power twice the amp draw as you will experience. ( watts = amps times volts)

This was with 13 degrees pitch, 2400, 2500 rpm, heli has plenty of grunt with those blades at 2400

Your blades are longer, I bet 2300 is going to be a good Headspeed, and that lowers your amp draw too

[mahbouni]

I forgot to mention one of my 12s Logo 600's with Rail 606mm blades also has a Jive 80HV, but with a heat sink fitted. JLog shows frequent spikes over 105A on that heli but never had an issue. Head speed was about 2300rpm if I remember correctly.

[GimpyGolden]

Originally Posted by GimpyGolden

This thread is making me nervous of using my JPro 80.
It will be going in a 12S Agile 5.5 running 570mm blade.
Maybe better off to try to sell it new and buy a 120A, what do you all think?
Motor is a Pyro 650 10+9 YY, 1.07mm (535Kv)

Looks like I had cause for concern.
First flights on my 5.5 12S/570 and am getting a lot of #15 Peak Current Reached warnings in events log with Bluetooth.

Never go a slow/shut down but kinda worried I might as I begin pushing the machine harder.
Peak current recorded by BT was 181A, not bad an 80Hv Pro handles this but my original Jive 80Hv did same without giving any warnings via LED flash.

Temp on unit was oK so don't see a need for added heat sink or cooling.
Will see how things go with more pitch and as my flying gets more aggressive as the season just began.

Anyone know the current J80P will cut out at?

[jmackey]

Originally Posted by Vinger

Great for your setup. Tried my JPro on Banshee, even lighter than E700, with Scorpion 4530 homewound, YY terminations and latest firmware on JPro, can cause overamp slowdown on every flight as soon as continues current goes over 140A or spikes over 170A. This just proves to me that the JPro120 is more suited for 600 machines.

Strange, I had a HJive on before and it handled everything I could throw at it, logged continues 160A and spikes of over 220A.... Guess the HJ or Kosmik is going on it... Maybe even one of the new Sorpion 14S SBEC ESC.....

I confirmed this today on my 6S Logo 550SX. Shutting down my JivePro 120 at 171 amps during a vertical snake. +/-12 collective and running 83% throttle for 2300 headspeed. Right in the ESC's sweet spot gearing wise. Other than the shutdown, headspeed holding was fantastic. FET temp at the time of shutdown was only 129F.

While shutting down at 170 doesn't sound bad compared to the 120 in the name... my older PowerJive and HeliJive 120's handled 220+ without problems.



FYI, my setup is:
Logo 550SX
VBAR Silverline
JivePro 120HV (Mode1,4, BEC=8v, P-Gain=7, Ri-Comp=007)
KDE 600XF-1100-G3 (3532 stator - 10 poles 12S10P - .007 wind resistance)
6S Revo 4400 60C
Jeti R3 UDI + JLOG2.6 GW
2S-TP250Lite buffer w/Perfect Regulators SafeSwitch2
cyclic - MKS HBL960 HV
rudder - MKS HBL990 HV
Zeal blades 550 / 95
106T Mod1 main gear
12T mod1 pinion

[icar]

A ratio of 8,83:1, with a 5500 W 2 sec and 3300 W continuous 1100 kv motor , with only 6 S , harsh conditions for a controller...

But it seems that the JP120 cuts a little too low. I am building a diabolo 700, light configuration (xnova 4030 560) and I planned to use a JP 120 for reasons of weight, but now I hesitate with what I read about the jive.(Shut down at 170 A peak and bec initialisation problems)

Finally, I may be choosing a YGE 160 V5 and a linus HV2 bec, it is a bit heavier, but it is cheaper and I could put a more powerful engine if I want to with no problem.

[jmackey]

Agreed, even in the light weight Logo 550 with low gearing, this is a very demanding power setup on 6S.

My telemetry shows the 171 amp spike that shut it down as only 3,454 watts. This KDE motor has significantly more power available if the ESC could only support it. No room for a Kosmik in this airframe either, but I'm sure an old Power Jive120 / HeliJive would handle these amps... or even a Jive 100LV.

[crash at 42]

Why not use a pyro motor works well with kontronik esc
the kde motors are great and powerful but optimized and designed around castle

[jmackey]

Originally Posted by crash at 42

Why not use a pyro motor works well with kontronik esc
the kde motors are great and powerful but optimized and designed around castle

That is an option for sure.
Not sure that I still couldn't shut it down with the Pyro / JivePro120 though since the ESC shutdown sensitivity / 170amp threshold is not changed.

Thought about going 7S with my same motor and dropping back to an 11T pinion, but the motor would make even more power. That's good (power is always good) and bad of course. Increasing voltage without reducing load will increase power and amps. The load will be reduced a little by going down 1 tooth on pinion, but I don't think that will offset the amp draw enough to solve the problem.

Also considered changing motor for a 12S setup, but that adds a lot of $$ and negates the simplicity of a single pack system taking advantage of my unused 6S packs. This is the best performance solution, just not cost effective for what I want out of this heli.

A few other tuning options on the table though.
- change timing from auto to fixed 15 or maybe even 10.
- reduce pinion back to 11T and try even higher throttle %. 90% should get me 2245... Not the 2300 I am shooting for, but maybe close enough. Gov overhead will probably not be sufficient for this to work well though.
- reduce collective pitch even more, at +-12 now (not desirable).


The following seems like the best solution if possible, and puts the JivePro series back inline with the very high standard set by it's PowerJive and HeliJive predecessors.

- Kontronik releases a firmware update that either raises the shutdown threshold / sensitivity or gives us a way to set/change it like other ESC's.

[GimpyGolden]

Any K reps know the hard cut limit on the Jive Pro's?
I've have seen Max current via BT module as ~180A on my JPro 80Hv. I assume this is similar to iPeak on Kos Log's, taken with a grain of salt.

Also seeing #15 Peak Current Reached on BT Log, how close to shutting it down am I?