LMT torqstar 7025

[Mercuriell]

It is a shame this interesting thread degenerated into personal issues between two very expert protagonists. Please keep us updated on progress Ralf and your findings.

Despite all the theory, my single strand XNova r performs significantly better than its multi strand Xera ancestor so there seems to be some empiric support of your findings.

[powercroco]

I never have said, the monostrand winding into this special motor will work much better - only said it will work. is there any doubt about it? I think no.

3 of the best outrunner - makers for helicopter use build their motors monostrand winding: kontronik, X-nova and also scorpion.
A professional and studied motormaker into our circle calculated out, that in case of the conditions in modeling this will have the better over all performance.
and it seems, the real life evidences it.

btw.: CHX was excluded primary because of he was lying in case of the source of a teststand in a helifreak discussion. now he is strongly struggeling against all the others.
all our findings into the former powercroco-forum have been so uninteresting, that the circle around these persons didn't hesitate to hack my forum as BOHO himselfes wrote me into a PM.
may be the trues, may be, he was lying also - it doens't matter.
I had to close ithe forum to protect the privat sphere of the memebers.
It's really a shame.

a paper about conditions into megahertz -region means nothing for our conditions. the best esc the modelers use, are working up to 32kHz part loaded. not more.

the difference in max. efficieny between a multistrand 2 pole inrunner and a more pole outrunner of the same size (weight) and kV is about 5% into the typical rpm region of the outrunner of this thread.
this is all, someone could win just theoretically.

to "discuss" with this kind of people is only a waste of time!

so I better stop this.

EDIT:
I also have the clear visible disadvantage, that this is not my native language and if there is someone who is waiting only for mistakes, he has an easy play......

[powercroco]

If someone wants, they can now buy a very poorly made but cheap Chinese "copy" of the Torqstar 7050!

[1BOHO]

Is that your copy shop O? Oh what a shame.. How could u do something like that in honor intellectual properties. Christian is a real work but so are you.... Damn!!! When does it get the scorpion stamp or is this how you avoid that?

Absolutely unbelievable the kind of friends you guys are to people and each other. I think you should reconcile this marriage. Im glad I didn't send you the 124mm plate. This American unlike you two has some integrity. Everything here that came from him has not been shared in detail with anyone till this day... damn that's grimy!!!!

What a "better" friend you have there in Germany Chris. You can blame yourself. Poor Hanz.....


Im still on deck here. Just waiting for you to show something. Like the y-d hybrid u know you also copied but it's fine. Educate yourself on our forums . I never need to lie about how shady ya'll are... they spied on you and you copied off Lehners design with China.... No American was allowed on your site anyway so what? They are fortunate to not have the gaping holes in their backs from all the stabbing...


Stay safe from this debacle and buy American.


Yours Truly,
Hubert

[powercroco]

Originally Posted by 1BOHO

Is that your copy shop O? Oh what a shame.. How could u do something like that in honor intellectual properties. Christian is a real work but so are you.... Damn!!! When does it get the scorpion stamp or is this how you avoid that?

Absolutely unbelievable the kind of friends you guys are to people and each other. I think you should reconcile this marriage. Im glad I didn't send you the 124mm plate. This American unlike you two has some integrity. Everything here that came from him has not been shared in detail with anyone till this day... damn that's grimy!!!!

What a "better" friend you have there in Germany Chris. You can blame yourself. Poor Hanz.....


Im still on deck here. Just waiting for you to show something. Like the y-d hybrid u know you also copied but it's fine. Educate yourself on our forums . I never need to lie about how shady ya'll are... they spied on you and you copied off Lehners design with China.... No American was allowed on your site anyway so what? They are fortunate to not have the gaping holes in their backs from all the stabbing...


Stay safe from this debacle and buy American.


Yours Truly,
Hubert

some more photos:

someone must be a real fool or even 1BOHO, if he could think, such poorly made thing could come from me or scorpion.

[1BOHO]

I dont know why its about as poor. And China manufactures the "HIGHER QUALITY" thing as well. They have access to YOUR "higher" level of intellect. However It is you here posting this knock off trash in a thread titled Torqstar 7025 isnt it.....?

[1BOHO]

I love this quality from you. Are you responsible for the idea of a unbonded stack as an ideal structural piece to hold the bearing on the other end? Im sure that higher quality is why I have several scorpions here that have fallen out of alignment and the magnet was touching the stator on that end before I ever opened them. I mean yes is that part of YOUR intellect that they probably did not follow and came up with something actually a little better? Or is that why you give this better Lehner design to copy anyway? Its feasible to believe u want a knock off a little better than you own motor manufactured there... If I know you will blackmail for CoFe plates why should I let them think u aren't a capable pirate? As soon as we showed the split tooth Gerling you had your own port submitted to hobby king or dont you remember that posting on rc group swinger police?

Glad to see you're one up on all of us on the release of pirated trash. I wonder how.... Only a fool would think they all of a sudden were inspired to manufacture this without prods from you. Now go ahead and wind it for the forum like you wanted to do the Torqstar originally then locked it. You return 5 years later with this....

This is why Americans should stay home and remain socially distant. U insult their intellect with this thing and the black and gold is signature. It is right in their face on a "Lehner" torqstar knock off. You think they are that dense? "You" is all over it. Who cant see that and YOU bring it here. I hope the other vendors see how low you go.


YT
Hugh

[powercroco]

You know google? (its an american company)
try it.
You will find this:


https://german.alibaba.com/product-d...837017304.html

on the righthand side you can find a trace for further information about the manufacturer.

why it is bad:
Have a closer look on the posted photos!
Seems to me, you are blind.
So I will help you.

- where are the definated wire twistings?
- where are the compressed coils?
- where it the multilayer platine for switching the coils?
- where is the high temerature capton film?

do you really think, we would need so many years (about 10 from the first view on Torqstar 7050) to bring such trash if we want to make a copy?
If yes, you really must be crazy.

[1BOHO]

Originally Posted by powercroco

You know google? (its an american company)
try it.
You will find this:


https://german.alibaba.com/product-d...837017304.html

on the righthand side you can find a trace for further information about the manufacturer.

why it is bad:
Have a closer look on the posted photos!
Seems to me, you are blind.
So I will help you.

- where are the definated wire twistings?
- where are the compressed coils?
- where it the multilayer platine for switching the coils?
- where is the high temerature capton film?

do you really think, we would need so many years (about 10 from the first view on Torqstar 7050) to bring such trash if we want to make a copy?
If yes, you really must be crazy.

Absolutely.... yes I think it takes you that long to decide someone knows more than you. Hence the resistance to any wind not a copy shop of what you do. Kinda like STSD individual coil winding free of your crossover wires from the Urologist you ran off here.

LOL! Americans aren't that stupid. As if we dont know that they could not copy exactly the tech thats the point of piracy Ralph the steal an idea then change just enuf to stay safe. Typically those "small" changes lead to poor performance but youll wind is soon enuf with mono wire or the new found practice of multi stranding you use on the newer stuff. That progression took many years if you follow your work. It will likely be another 10 before you succumb to the hybrid winds.

I mean you're supposedly advanced but how long did it take for you to realize axial cooling in your competition aircraft machines.

Only a goofball would expect alibaba to say this Is a copy of a Lehner by way of Ralph Okon. Tell the forum about your submission to Hobby King for sale using Dieter Gerling and Dajaku Gurakuq's intellect. You erased the post on rc groups when Luke called it out. This was the period where you claimed Dr Gerling tech does not work yet you drew it up and submitted it and hid the hybrid motor results from Lucas and company. Thats why Stefan was spying. I told you because I knew at least one never needed to see your work or diagnostics to know. I also never liked him either because he speculated alot and had not a clue as he did not even recognize the scope as a viable reporter of what happens with the harmonic content. Haschenk your friend who is the real EE in your group had to confirm this for you high intellect modelers.... "NOTHING IN COMMON" aka Stefan was just another highly intelligent egghead such as yourself that waste time to argue with you about these topics when simple diagnostic tools can show the result. U still need to learn how to use a scope O.... and not a damn thing you've posted about motors has been submitted and peer reviewed by the field. With that superior intellect of yours you should go after the ABB Hubertus award for post docs. I bet you will not win or even be close with the antiquated tech scorpion uses. No real bearing support. SCORPION is hardly the benchmark of hobby motor design.

All you've done for the last 10 years is deny any winding or new tech that makes what you did damn near 20 years ago obsolete. There's no real advance in scorpion tech for quite some time. We see the major performance improvement from a hkIII to hkIV . And what about the alignment issue ive observed???......same shitty design. I can see well enuf to know when a person needs a reference link to the Bosley hair club.... Just kidding! BTW how many times are you gonna tell the forum bye and come back? Admit it you like it here and miss the praise. I know.... welcome back dear friend.... Good thing were inclusive here....

BUY AMERICAN AND AVOID A BARREL OF VENOMOUS REPTILIANS !

With Love,
Hubert

[1BOHO]

This is what Im talking about. Now for some reason scorpion decided to switch to a single coil winding system and says the EM field performance was better which resulted in higher power but when you look at the Idle current and motor resistance how could it be much better? Not to mention they list the same max and peak power levels for each machine. No way the IV is significantly better and it has a much higher idle current and phase resistance. Dr. Okon can clear this up for the American vendors what going on here with these statements and this chart I put together that compares parameter for parameter the HKIII and HKIV 5035 500Kv. Have a look at the statement and the numbers. The motor on the right side of the chart is the HKIII which is also 53 grams lighter. Where is the major improvement of the higher quality Dr O? As a strange American I can wait to hear how a motor with a higher IO and resistance is the winner. You know I've always been a little different than most Americans which inherently think Germans are the superior thinkers and just accept what you say. Im African so that changes things historically and chronologically as it pertains to intellectual properties the entire world has been building off of for thousands of years. You know you guys have LITZ wire but the braiding patterns were used by the southern Africans from Nubia where twisting those patterns by hand 2000 years BC. Historically I'm not as impressed as some here are with what you guys do. If you have a higher level of intellect forget these simple twist Lehner used or a single wire to avoid proximity losses why not try to hand wind Litz coils....??? Young Africans and American teens of African decent can do this with ease. True or false???

Im enthusiastic to hear your response. If you are a Dr. you should know the real history of the world and acknowledge the real capabilities of other nationalities you do not posses.

Thank you tremendously for your awaited reply,
"Hubert"

[powercroco]

why you don't ask scorpion about this?

[1BOHO]

Originally Posted by powercroco

why you don't ask scorpion about this?

Bingo! why would I ask scorpion about a winding style they adopted from you? Now you don't wanna speak for Scorpion but have been the last few post and years..... Now you disassociating yourself with them... with this question. Dang! you just dissed your homies at Scorpion.

https://www.scorpionsystem.com/suppo...lding_technic/

You're a pinned technical advisor on their site that wont explain this "Technical Improvement" That came from you. You all have to think Americans are stupid if you dont think at least one of them knows the relevance of resistance and idle current. Lucas gave you the lesson after u locked this thread......

Originally Posted by CHX2

How to improve electricmotors .
@Mercuriel John
Hi ,
belong to the tread about the Lehner Torqstar ,i will show you how the plate- and the coildesign effect the motorperformance.
As you know the max efficancy that a electricmotor can reach you simple calculated by free running ampload and stall ampload. The math is eta = squareroot ( freeamp/stallamp) . So it is easy to see that if we want to rise the performance we need to lower free running amps and also lower the coilresistance to get incredibl stallampsload. To lower freerunning amps one way is to lower eddy current in the copperstrand. We can do it by fabricate the coil from multistrand wire so all fluxlines that cross the wire find only a thin copperpart to induce eddycurrent.
To lower the coilresistance ,you have to fill the statorslot with as much copper as you can do.
The old ,comon statordesign used currently by modelmotormakers limit this as you can only place the wire by wire that can find its way thrue the slotopening or by to thread or run in the wire in the slot. This will give you a copperfillingfactor of max. 50% . The openslot platedesign will allow you to fill the slot with a high concentrate pre fabricated coil that reach 70% fillingfactor and higher ,with a very spezial coil up to 95% ,that belong to the volts and the needed isulation for what the motor has to be designed.
At last i will simply show you where is the best position of the coils wire . Where has the wire the highest effect to produce torque. The best position is so close to the magnets of the rotor as you can place them . So most outside of the statorplatedesign is the way to go . The magnetic flux will direct interact with the coil .If the wire sit low in the statorslot it will see less and less magnetic flux as deeper the wire is placed as the magnetic flux will also find it's way not only using the iron pass. This is the comon way you know from current motormakers . Lehner has the better technic and other ways to lower loss in the coils .
Also a new statorplatedesign that do not mix the phases ,two similar motor in size the new design increase torque same ampload by 15-16%.
The best news is that you need no motortuner to get higher performance as the motor is at the highest level and if you need a different kv you order only a different stator with other wind and change the stator . Bearing is not glued inside the plates . Cheap and easy , change by yourself .
This are the reason wy other manufactor and tuner have stress and want to speak bad about and want to destroy competitor . Aske them since they worke in the bussines and what kind of education they have ,papers ,patent lizenz .

I've got a motor building kit made by ScorpionSystems from Hong Kong."

~Powercroco~

All any American has to do is a general serach for "technical review" of scorpion brushless motors and see the name in the majority of their links..... I mean to say you've improved something and the math not agree is like false advertisement . Are you so unaware??? That's amazing even for you.... Please dont get upset and leave again for the 3rd or 4th time.

YWIA,
Hugh

[powercroco]

Bingo! why would I ask scorpion about a winding style they adopted from you? Now you don't wanna speak for Scorpion but have been the last few post and years..... Now you disassociating yourself with them... with this question. Dang! you just dissed your homies at Scorpion.

https://www.scorpionsystem.com/suppo...lding_technic/

You're a pinned technical advisor on their site that wont explain this "Technical Improvement" That came from you. You all have to think Americans are stupid if you dont think at least one of them knows the relevance of resistance and idle current. Lucas gave you the lesson after u locked this thread......

nice evidence.

you really live deep in the past.
these all are HK 1 kits, the newest building report is from 2010.

[1BOHO]

Originally Posted by powercroco

nice evidence.

you really live deep in the past.
these all are HK 1 kits, the newest building report is from 2010.

No consumer is laughing....Whats funny about the fact that you divert from the most important question. U talk about intellect and development but the numbers posted on your 2020 shit are actually worse than those from 2010 Whats so intellectually superior about a regression in performance?

The past is the foundation for the future. Were they supposed to forget???

Since you have this language barrier in the USA let me help you. It is a word that can be used as an intransitive verb to describe your actions.

Obfuscate to be evasive, unclear, or confusing.

Have a good day Powercroco my point has been proven.
No time for childish games or lack of accountability.

Hugh

[powercroco]

Originally Posted by 1BOHO

Bingo! why would I ask scorpion about a winding style they adopted from you? Now you don't wanna speak for Scorpion but have been the last few post and years..... Now you disassociating yourself with them... with this question. Dang! you just dissed your homies at Scorpion.

https://www.scorpionsystem.com/suppo...lding_technic/

You're a pinned technical advisor on their site that wont explain this "Technical Improvement" That came from you. You all have to think Americans are stupid if you dont think at least one of them knows the relevance of resistance and idle current. Lucas gave you the lesson after u locked this thread......







I've got a motor building kit made by ScorpionSystems from Hong Kong."

~Powercroco~

All any American has to do is a general serach for "technical review" of scorpion brushless motors and see the name in the majority of their links..... I mean to say you've improved something and the math not agree is like false advertisement . Are you so unaware??? That's amazing even for you.... Please dont get upset and leave again for the 3rd or 4th time.

YWIA,
Hugh

forgot to save this version of your answer.

[powercroco]

Originally Posted by 1BOHO

No consumer is laughing....Whats funny about the fact that you divert from the most important question. U talk about intellect and development but the numbers posted on you 2020 shit are actually worse than those from 2010 Whats so intellectually superior about a regression in performance.

The past is the foundation for the future. Were they supposed to forget???

thisone too.

[1BOHO]

Originally Posted by powercroco

forgot to save this version of your answer. My name is ralph okon and I am a liar to the American consumer

Wow quotes are definitive LOL you are very bright I see. You can just write or delete in whatever you want sherlock . That high level of intellect sure is shining bright

[1BOHO]

And then on the other hand the American consumer can go on Scorpions site and pull these charts posted by them and come to their own conclusions.....



Have a good day Okon

Luv,
Hugh

[powercroco]

I like it, if a motor of the same size with the higher resistance has the higher no load amps.

and the motor with the higher coppersquare in winding (1,8mm dia vs. 29x0,33mm dia) has the higher resistance.
and both of them handle the same power.
great.


would be nice to read, what the math says about this.
or the scop?

may be, bad plugs....

[1BOHO]

They have the direct comparisons on the HKIII and HKIV 5035.

The math says you're obviously mistaken and not well versed on English because what you just typed makes absolutely no sense. Are u representing and answering for scorpion again?

Thats a start but then the hard part is being honest about it.