How big of a difference do servos make?

[skunkworx]

I was wondering how much of a difference good or better servos would make in an R-30 or 50. Reason I ask is my friend has a good ol Rappy 30 (we call it the "Dirty 30" ) and it currently has some cheapy/stock DS821's and DS811's mixed and matched. While these deliver pretty good performance, they leave a bit to be desired. I have tried a couple R50's that had decked-out 8717's on 2S and gnarly motor setups but they didn't feel any different or better, but they're two totally different sizes and I didn't want to assume that the setups were maxed out (I'm teaching someone to fly using a Trex 600N with 610 servos and that thing is a turd, but I know that heli can rip).

I tried a few different servos on my 500 and it made quite a bit of difference from one brand/specs to the next and was thinking it would be nice to get just a tad more out of the R30 before needing to make the conversion up to 50. If we were to get some Savox/Align 610's, would it be worth putting them in the 30? The other option would be to put them in the R90 and leave the cheapies in the 30 until he can afford a second set to complete both helis. Either way he does it, he can only fly one at a time and the R30 has been extremely reliable and very affordable to fly. He's fairly new and is just starting to get brave enough to try some inverted hovering and maybe tic-tocs/rainbows, so I think it would be better to keep him on the smaller heli a little longer.

[AFjetmech]

The 821's are not a good choice in any nitro heli. Shafts are known to break. I currently have 9252's in Raptor 90 although it is a scale bird. I did have them in a nitro Raptor 90 before selling it. On 6v they are a good reliable servo and can be found used for reasonable prices. Many people are always upgrading to the "latest and greatest" so check the classifieds on all the forums.

[skunkworx]

Originally Posted by AFjetmech

The 821's are not a good choice in any nitro heli. Shafts are known to break.

I've seen nothing but great sucess out of the 821's and 811's so far. You put longer servo horn screws in them and they do A-OK. I know this is probably going completely against mainstream, but I hardly find the results against these servos to be conclusive. Not only have they worked well for many years on end, they've put up with 4 crashes (one bad enough to snap the servo arm itself) and there was not a bit of damage to the output shaft or gearsets. Now when it comes to loading them up into a harder hitting, eCCPM heli, that would be a different story.

While I've seen them fly well in many birds, I'm more of an MG kinda guy when it comes to flying beyond the basics and durability is one of the main reasons we want to get some stronger/faster, but flight performance could use just a bit more oomph. I gave up on analogue servos a long time ago so the 9252's are out of the equation unfortunately.

I'm mainly interested in seeing if going from the cheaper 821's to something like a BLS351/8717/610/760MG/etc... would yield good enough results to make it worth the switch (aka do they increase flight performance like I've seen in other machines) or does it not make a difference seeing it's just a 30 size running mCCPM?

[BarracudaHockey]

+1 on getting rid of the 821's There's quite a few threads that end with "I wish I had listened to you guys about those servos"

Yes, to answer your question, good servos make a difference. Whether or not you fly well enough to fully appreciate the difference is a question you and your wallet will have to decide.

[AFjetmech]

9252's are not analog. http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXVZ39&P=0

[skunkworx]

Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey

+1 on getting rid of the 821's There's quite a few threads that end with "I wish I had listened to you guys about those servos"

Yes, to answer your question, good servos make a difference. Whether or not you fly well enough to fully appreciate the difference is a question you and your wallet will have to decide.

Like I said, if you change out the servo horn screw, those problems are non-existant (of which there are threads to support that side as well). We've smashed the heli into bits before and it always makes a come-back, so until it does itself in or my buddy gets the funding to upgrade to MG's, these ones are doing quite well. I gave it the best flight of its life yesterday. I think the big limiting factor for now is the motor. While it makes some really great power for its size, I wish they would make a .40+ size that would give it a little more oomph and be able to hang with either the gear ratios or have it re-geared in order to take advantage of the extra power. 30's/550's are some really fun machines and I especially love flying the Raptor for some reason. After adding the KBDD TWEE paddles on it, that little sucker just zings!

Originally Posted by AFjetmech

9252's are not analog.

Thanks for the update AF. I either had them confused with something else or looked it up on the wrong site. Who knows?

[BarracudaHockey]

The longer screw doesn't keep the servo amplifier from dying.

[skunkworx]

Well then they would be subject to failure just like any other servo. If anything, I've seen more Align servos fail than any JR's (even the cheap ones like an 811 or 821). I'm not saying that these servos are the greatest ones to own and I can only tell what my experiences have been with them. But they have been flawless so far. I've had a ton of similar Futaba servos go batty on me and there were no big stories about them, so it's baffling why these ones would reap such bad press. Is it because a lot of people were using them in applications that were too much for the servo?

[BarracudaHockey]

Probably, the first problem is they shipped with the most popular radio on the market. Then the high faulure rate prompted JR/Spektrum in issue a service warning not to use them in over 30 size nitros or 120 size planes and above. Quite a statement to say you cant use the provided servos with the most popular radio, in the (arguably) most popular nitro size helicopters.

They do seem to be more sensitve to vibration than other servos.

I'm not bashing JR or Spektrum in any way, though I have a little of everything for reviews, my planes/helis fly on JR/Spektrum equipment.

But I wouldn't use those particular servos in anything that cost more than one of those servos itself.

The 811 though not spectacular, didnt get anywhere near the failures.

FWIW, I'm not talking about "stuff I've read", I'm speaking about "stuff I've seen and experienced"

Stick them in a bucket of water, if they float, go ahead and use them If not, don't stick them in a nitro heli or a big electric, because the cost of tearing up a heli will probably cost more than a set of decent servos.

[skunkworx]

I wasn't aware of the service announcement. I usually used the servos in cars and non-flying applications until my buddy got his R30. Seeing he had them sitting around, we stuck them on there when the other servos either failed or didn't come with the machine. i've been urging him to upgrade the servos to MG's regardless of the standpoint for or against them. I hate changing gears and the servos never seem to run quite right after they get a gear change and I've never had that issue with the MG's (If they strip they get replaced outright).

I had a good laugh about dunking them in water...I wonder what my 8717's would do? lol

[seanh]

Interesting how so many people take a negative stance when a manufacturer states when there may be a failure while other her manufacturers say nothing.

Those servos are great on any plane up to 90 size planes, will even do 3D very well. As to helis, they work very well in electrics of 50 class. Just don't bang them hard continuously.

They'll work in the 30 nitro fine. Those who have had problems had short screws and in numerous cases were using locktite. They were also, hitting them hard 3D...well, they're 30 dollar servos, what do you expect?

And yes, the Align servos have more failures than the 821's but those failed with the electronics, not the gears. There is a reason why there are so many sold directly out of the combo package



consider the hyperions, very good and reasonably priced