Why did Kontronik not honor the warranty?

[3Dmuse]

Someone on RunRyder posted about his experience with sending in a defective Heli Jive Limited Edition and being asked to pay for a new one, without being given any explanation whatsoever as to what was wrong with the controller and why it was not serviced under the 24 months warranty. The guy paid for a new controller, however this controller stopped working as well and the guy is really worried now that Kontronik will ask him again to pay for a new controller. This would bring the total price he paid close to 2500 EURO.

If someone cares to read about this case, here is the link: http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t688067p1/

[NRPY]

Why are you posting this here? As far as I know, no Kontronik representatives post here, so I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish. Has your friend tried contacting Kontronik?

[3Dmuse]

Originally Posted by NRPY

Why are you posting this here? As far as I know, no Kontronik representatives post here, so I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish. Has your friend tried contacting Kontronik?

Have you read through the thread that I linked? Yes, Kontronik was made aware of this case but chose not to answer publicly to a problem that had already been made public.

This is a forum dedicated to Kontronik products. The Heli Jive is a Kontronik product, isn't it? Maybe other pilots had problems with this controller as well and I hoped that they could share their experience with the warranty service they received from Kontronik.

I also hope that someone from Kontronik will eventually see this thread and will realize that is not OK to only let a customer know that the controller sent in for service is irreparable and cannot be replaced under the warranty, which is supposed to be 24 months, without explaining why the warranty does not apply. This is not OK especially when asking the customer to pay 578.93 Euro for a replacement.

[wanderer56]

I had a Koby 90 sent to Germany and repaired. No questions asked and no charge?

[abanihani]

I dealt with them twice on defective ESCs and had a brand new ESCs returned to me without any charge, could not be happier with their great service, I own a total of 8 knotronik ESCs.

[Heli G]

Originally Posted by barzaun

Have you read through the thread that I linked? Yes, Kontronik was made aware of this case but chose not to answer publicly to a problem that had already been made public.

It is a forum dedicated to Kontronik products. The Heli Jive is a Kontronik product, isn't it? Maybe other pilots had problems with this controller as well and I hoped that they could share their experience with the warranty service they received from Kontronik.

I also hope that someone from Kontronik will eventually see this thread and will realize that is not OK to only let a customer know that the controller sent in for service is irreparable and cannot be replaced under the warranty, which is supposed to be 24 months, without explaining why that the warranty does not apply. This is not OK, especially when asking the customer for 578.93 Euro.

K posted on the thread stating their warranty policy and that customers need to contact them. It is quite clear that they warrant their products to be free from defects, but they won't cover incorrect voltage, misuse etc. After quite a few posts, including yours, advising Tommy I haven't seen his reply as to requesting a clarification from K as to why they won't cover the HeliJive. I think that is the key before we all get worked up.

My experience with K service has been limited to sending in a Pyro motor which had a short. They replaced it with a new one free of charges and couriered to my door from Germany. So I cannot complain about their service. If Tommy is in the clear I cannot see why they would do otherwise, so can only assume they picked up something which pointed to misuse, but am speculating here. I would like to see the outcome of this as well as I have heavily invested in their Jives and motors.

[byter182]

I had a similar situation occur when I sent in both my Kontronik Jive 120+ HV Speed Controller and Pyro 700-45 motor. The only thing I really needed was to get the shaft on my 700-45 motor replaced to a longer one so I can use a counterbearing. However, since my bird was already gonna be down, figured I'd send in my K speed controller as well... Not because there was anything wrong with it but just to get a Preventative Maintence (PM) done and a software upgrade. That was before I knew that there is no software upgrade for the JIVE series. Anyhow, the controller and motor both work perfectly except for maybe a tiny nick on the wire which I hoped they would replace. The package was sent in beginning of February and finally around mid March I get this:

Dear Mr. XXXXX,

As part of our service we would like to offer you a new product at your current dealer conditions.

It’s a chage you POWER-JIVE into a HELI JIVE

Please find attached your individual Service Offer from 16.03.2012

Please let us know, if you like to accept our offer.

Please note that KONTRONIK only conducts a failure diagnosis and not a complete failure analysis. Offers for exchange are valid for 14 calendar days. Defective parts cannot be sent back if an offer for exchange is accepted.

Possible payment options are:
PayPal (receiver account): info@kontronik.com
Credit Card (Visa/Mastercard): Please provide your complete card details (Card Owner | Card Number | Valid to)

Bank transfer:
Name of Bank: Volksbank Herrenberg-Rottenburg
Owner of account: KONTRONIK GmbH
Bank routing number: 603 913 10
Account number: 595 685 005
IBAN-Code: DE04603913100595685005
Swift-Code: GENODES1VBH

Please feel free to contact us if you have any question.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen aus Rottenburg || Kind regards from Rottenburg

Hans-Jörg Hägele
Technischer Support | Technical Support
Telefon +49 7457 943532 · Fax +49 7457 943590
hj.haegele@kontronik.com
http://www.kontronik.com

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The offer from what I gather was to replace the JIVE for a HeliJIve at an out of pocket cost to me of 180 Euros. I immediately replied to this email politely declining the offer and asked that they fix the nick and send everything back. They still haven't replied to any of my multiple emails and it's been over a week.

It took over a month for them to send me acknowledgement that they had even received the package even after emailing them asking for an update. And it wasn't a reply to my email it was a new email. So are they getting the emails and ignoring them? To me that's not good customer service.

I also have a real problem with this statement,

"Defective parts cannot be sent back if an offer for exchange is accepted."

To me that statement kind of suggests that they're expecting their merchandise to be defective and they're just covering their rearends. To me that's not good customer service. For you guys with experience dealing with K, how long does it normally take for them to get back to you? Are these typical wait times?

Peace Out,
Byter182

[MrMel]

Byter182,

You sent in the controller for a "PM" that they do not do and for a upgrade that does not exist, which probably just led them to stand there with a big "?????" over their head, and fall back to the only "upgrade" they had which was what you got an offer for...

Please note that they cannot change cables on a Jive, meaning if there is a damaged cable the whole jive will need to be replaced.
So any "nick" in a cable, I suggest you patch it up yourself with a piece of heatshrink.

[Heli G]

Originally Posted by byter182

"Defective parts cannot be sent back if an offer for exchange is accepted."*

I think this is more of a translation issue...my interpretation is that you cannot request that they return the defective part if you have accepted their exchange.

It took about 10 days for them to confirm receipt. I did ship it with tracking so that I can confirm delivery. I bought all my K products from ReadyHeli and had the option of returning the faulty motor to them, but they did say it would be quicker to return it directly to Germany. I guess it is easier to deal with ReadyHeli, especially if you are in the US. Did you buy your items from RH as well? Also see the USA dealer page for K, maybe they can offer assitance http://www.kontronikusa.com/support.html

Never heard of a PM service from K, where did you see this? Did you ask them about it before sending the items?

[dl7uae]

Well, "kontronikusa" means RH.

RH is collecting defective items over a certain time and then sending a bunch of to K in Germany. So in fact in may get a bit faster in sending it to K by yourself if time is the factor (as it always is in the hobby ).

Be aware of filling out that service request sheet. There are several divisions involved inside K, so it is important to inform everyone of what the issue was and what is requested/intended/expected by you.

In principle, K is very accommodating. Also, for the customer it is more economic to replace, rather than repair it. (Okay.., a JIVE anyway cannot be repaired. But they honor this by fair replacement.) But just the question of whether a gesture of goodwill / warranty, or whether there is a fee.. Everything depends on exact information and the right way of communication. It does not help to email w/ a person on the hotline and then to send the items unidentifiable and with no relation to the communication before. To had have a contact with the hotline, Marcial or Hansi, before, does not mean automatically that one of them will take notice of your units when they arrive.

Therefore they cannot replace missing information before the device goes into the service cycle. And you may safely imagine that processing technicians have a less customer-centric view as the people of the hotline / of customer care in general.

It is, as always in life: A clearly formulated task is the best condition for the fulfillment of my expectations.

Tom

[byter182]

Originally Posted by MrMel

Byter182,

You sent in the controller for a "PM" that they do not do and for a upgrade that does not exist, which probably just led them to stand there with a big "?????" over their head, and fall back to the only "upgrade" they had which was what you got an offer for...

Please note that they cannot change cables on a Jive, meaning if there is a damaged cable the whole jive will need to be replaced.
So any "nick" in a cable, I suggest you patch it up yourself with a piece of heatshrink.

Well... That does help to clarify things a bit Mr. Mel. I wasn't aware that the JIVE series speed controllers were not serviceable.

I sent in my Motor and ESC to ReadyHeli first and they in turn sent it to Kontronik. I touched base with Fredrik at Readyheli and informed him of what I intended to do with my Kontroniks electronics and he didn't mention anything about Kontronik not servicing the JIVE controllers. I've heard of other members sending in there Jive's for health check ups and assumed they'd do the same for mine. Don't remember where I've seen these posts but will try and find them and post it here.

Pretty pricey piece of electronics for Kontronik not to offer any servicing. It's all good... I can handle that but would appreciate if Kontronik would just communicate to me via a reply email what the condition of there terms are. On a timely bases. This would at least open up a dialog. But as it stands now I've just been sitting around twittling my thumbs for over a week wondering what they're gonna do next. Feel it's pointless to send any more emails as I'm probably not gonna get any faster a reply.

[MrMel]

You speaking with Fredrik at RH... so I know what was said.

RH does only forward items, thats why it's important to have the serviceform filled out.
Like tom saying, most causes of problem with Kontronik Warranty = Miscommunication.

[NRPY]

Fredrik = MrMel

[byter182]

Originally Posted by NRPY

Fredrik = MrMel

Yikes!

[byter182]

Originally Posted by MrMel

You speaking with Fredrik at RH... so I know what was said.

RH does only forward items, thats why it's important to have the serviceform filled out.
Like tom saying, most causes of problem with Kontronik Warranty = Miscommunication.

Well no problem Mr. Mel. I did fill the forms out and they were pretty complete to the best of my knowledge. Anyhow... I'll give 'em another week for a reply from Kontronik. I'm gonna have faith they'll do the right thing.

[byter182]

Well Guys... They finally came through. Kontronik replaced the shaft on my Pyro 700-45 motor w/a longer one and replaced my PowerJive HV120+ w/a brand new one. And as far as I know, I wasn't charged a penny. Lost my heat sink in the process, but considering that I got a new ESC free of charge, I'd say that's a more than fair trade.

Other than the rather sluggish communication, in the end Kontronik exceeded my expectations and delivered great customer care.

I'm a happy customer,
Byter182