Tuning Redline 53

[Craig33]

I am getting really bored of this engine so i could do with some suggestions on proper tuning.

Fuel is wildcat 30%
Align muffler.
Align govenor.
Throttle servo is futaba 3050 running push pull.
Endpoints are 86/86 so throttle servo is leading cyclics (as read on raptor technique)

Problem:
Idles nice, spools up to about 1/2 throttle OK but then the power/headspeed drops off up to about 3/4 throttle then the power comes back on as i guess its fully onto the main needle.
If i put the govenor on i get a major hiccup as the govenor takes over and tries to open the carb rotor.

This what i have done so far:
Set mixture needle flush. With carb rotor wide open wound in 3rd needle until it touches then back out 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 (i have tried both). Usually then need to wind in the mixture to get it to run, which is then 1 turn out from fully closed. Main is at 2.25 turns out.

Adjustments:
If i lean the mixture screw it raises the point at which the power drops off.
If i go too far it starts to sound like its mis-firing.
If i richen the main needle it gets real gurgly around mid range and does not pull in the climbouts.
If i lean the main needle then it pulls nice but the temps get scary.

I can get in running reasonable but not 100%. If i bog it the headspeed does not come back up as quick as i'd like, im guessing because i cant get the midrange sorted.

Craig.

[sikorskys76]

found this here...maybe it could help

OK,

Since i have had my redline i have had issues with it leaning when i take it out of idle up, (indicating lean mid) i have compensated for this by adjusting the idle mixture rich (affecting idle qualities) and throwing a carbsmart on

However thanks to some guys in the states it was noticed that the engine has a third needle (found if you remove the throttle arm from the carby barrel).

This needle is factory set to 1.5 turns out, however it is believed this is for the asian market (using less nitro).

So with this new information i have been fiddling and found the following

With carby Idle needle set to flush (factory settings) and main needle out 3 turns. I open the carby and turn the 3rd needle all the way in till it hits the idle needle in the throat.

Then wind the 3rd needle out (with carby barrel open fully) 2 and a quater to 2 and a third.

Then start heli, adjust idle screw till a decent idle is achieved.
Then adjust main needle until power is achieved.

Finally fine tune idle and main until it hammers !!! then check it does not lean when it goes back to mid position (coming out of idle up)

If it wont reach max power : Third needle may be too far out
If it still leans when you flick out: Adjust third needle out slightly more

Note:
When making a third needle adjustment always re-check throttle servo endpoints for binding and full travel etc. Also both idle and main needle will need to be adjusted (due to the third needle adjusting the whole range)

Good luck Mine is powerful and smokey all the time now with a nice idle

Cheers

[kas4j]

The third needle slowly backed out on mine. About drove me nuts trying to figure out why it wouldn't idle right. The Redline series is made to use lower niro fuel, so I have heard. I tried 30% and counldn't get mine to run right. Switched back to 20% and no problems except the one above. I have it in a rappy titan and it pulls like a beast. 12/12 pitch no gov. I'm not doing crazy 3d yet but it does handle my poor collective managment.

[Craig33]

Changing fuel is about the only think i have not tried.

sikorskys76. I found that post on an aussie website just last week. I tried those changes last weekend before starting this thread. I was setting the 3rd needle with the carb rotor closed before i read that post but even after setting as suggested i still end up with the same problems.

I can hopefully get shot of an mp5 in the name of testing.

[sikorskys76]

And with the price of the fuel its a pain to take so much time to tune the engine...Im on my 4rth tank And i think I finally got it....

I have the MP5..Its a nice little pipe

[Craig33]

Quick update.

I have now tried the 3rd needle everywhere from 2-2.5 turns out. Re-tune other needles accrodingly trying different combinations. I can get it to spool up to full revs real nice and run on curves all day long. When i switch the govenor on i get to the point where the gov takes over and it either bogs like mad and cuts or bogs like mad then jumps up to the set headspeed. Once its fully on the gov it runs fine albeit that i can still bog the head if im not uber cautious on the collective.

I re-program the gov after each tweak and it never did this with the OS 50. I am going to try setting 3rd needle at 1.5 turns out then the OS is going back in.

[sikorskys76]

i think I am going to do the same thing.Mine keeps leaning out by itself when going from idle up to normal mode.It doesnt do it all the time and I have played with the 3rd needle.I will be replacing this engine soon.

[Craig33]

Yea man i am totally sick of this engine but am almost reluctant to give up because i just cant accept that it beat me. Is there something wrong with me?

[sikorskys76]

yeah there is something wrong with both of us,we bought that engine

[glydrjocky]

I just received my Redline .53 and there was a head shim in the box with directions that stated to "use this shim if running greather than 15% nitro or on hot/humid days. Wonder if that would have any effect on whats going on here?

I'm debating as to weather or not to use this shim. I may just stick with 15%.

[sikorskys76]

Im not sure if I have one or not.I Will have to check.I bought this heli used.


Do you have one craig?

[glydrjocky]

I just uploaded a photo of the shims that came with my .53. There are two in the package but I would assume that you only use one. You can read the included text next to the shims.

I'm thinking that the drop in compression might help clear up some of these high end issues that you are seeing. Seems like just dropping to 20% nitro with positive results has already proved that the engine has high compression and likes the lower nitro fuels.

[Craig33]

Now you have me worried. I transplanted this engine at the field then just lobbed the OS in the box the redline came out of. Dammit, i just started work and now i cant wait to rush home and check it.

[sikorskys76]

Originally Posted by glydrjocky

I just uploaded a photo of the shims that came with my .53. There are two in the package but I would assume that you only use one. You can read the included text next to the shims.

I'm thinking that the drop in compression might help clear up some of these high end issues that you are seeing. Seems like just dropping to 20% nitro with positive results has already proved that the engine has high compression and likes the lower nitro fuels.

Thank you for that!!

I will have to check that tonight.

Derik

[Rototerrier]

Craig, what you are describing sounds like your Curve for Idle1/2 or where ever you are when you enable the governor is lower than where you are when the governor is off. I have a V Curve for Idel1 and 2 and make sure the V is setup so that I am at about the same throttle at hover as I am in normal that way the throttle doesn't move when I switch.

The throttle will momentarily follow your curve before the governor takes over and adds throttle. This would mean your throttle is going way low and then the governor is kicking in and taking it back up to the desired RPM.

I run my TT RedLine on 30% CP and CY Wildcat and it screams. I tried 20% and it was a dog. I could bog the head in a chaos to the point you would think she would fall out of the sky. With 30% I can sustain a constant chaos with full throws and it pulls and pulls. I also use a Carbsmart so it handles the high needle for me. Turned right and given that you didn't get a factory defect, I can't see anyone having a legitimate complaint about this engine.

Edit: My point here actually being, your low end tuning might suck, but once you get into that high needle and turn on the governor, it should be cranking mad power and stay in that range without ever dipping back into the low. You should only be getting poor performance after you turn the governor off and have to go thru the mid/low to land. You are experiencing 2 different problems.

Edit2: I wasn't going to comment on this...but, My 53 didn't come with a head shim and doesn't appear to need one. Did they change the engine? or am I just getting lucky? No way I would touch mine, but if it were possible to get even more power, well, I am game for that. Anyone have any insight on this?

Originally Posted by Craig33

Quick update.

I have now tried the 3rd needle everywhere from 2-2.5 turns out. Re-tune other needles accrodingly trying different combinations. I can get it to spool up to full revs real nice and run on curves all day long. When i switch the govenor on i get to the point where the gov takes over and it either bogs like mad and cuts or bogs like mad then jumps up to the set headspeed. Once its fully on the gov it runs fine albeit that i can still bog the head if im not uber cautious on the collective.

I re-program the gov after each tweak and it never did this with the OS 50. I am going to try setting 3rd needle at 1.5 turns out then the OS is going back in.

[Craig33]

Checked at lunch time and as i thought, there was no shims in the box. Not losing my mind after all.

The gov is active in normal after 30% throttle.
My curve is 10,22,44,66,78. It spools up and hovers nice at what sounds like the usual hover speed of about 1850.
Land, switch gov on spool up again and i get the results i listed before.
IU1 is 100,55,100.
IU2 is flat 90 but was the same as IU1. Changing it has made no difference and i tried with the mid value at 60,70,80,90.
Norm: 1850
IU1:2000
IU2:2100

The headspeed on the curve as im spooling up is definitely slower than fter the gov kicks in so i would have thought the gov isseeing my 30% point then trying to jam the throttle wide open to make up the difference

[Craig33]

glydrjocky is that shim in the packet additonal to one that is already in the engine or is that the only one total.

I pulled my head today and there is already a 0.3mm shim in there.

[glydrjocky]

I just looked at the package and there are two shims total in there. I am assuming there is a gasket in the engine already shown as PN0311 on the parts break down. There is no mention of the shims in the directions, which is kinda strange.

I'm borderline confused at this point.

We need a head shim expert to chime in on this one.

[Craig33]

Thanks for the reply. I wonder if they will release the shims as spares soon.

This is what what already in the head.
http://www.fast-lad.co.uk/store/aa07...ne-p-3795.html

I set my 3rd needle to 1.5 turns out and got 2 tanks to tune it but still no difference. Its as if the gov tries to crank the throttle wide open but the tuning is too rich to respond fast enough. This does not make sense though as even when i set the needles as lean as i dare it spools up nice with the gov off but crap at the point where the gov takes over until it clears itself and gets onto full song. After about 1 min of stick banging i land and the temps are wya too high.

Im away to slap my OS back in for tomorrow unless anyone has any last ditch ideas and i'll bet there is no issues with the gov.

Thanks for all the replies so far.

[glydrjocky]

I talked with a number of people at the field today and it seems that even the OS .91 is shipped with shims for use with higher nitro. I may go ahead and add one shim to mine since I'm going to be burning at least 20% in my other birds OS .37 might as well have common fuel in both.

Have you ever thought of trying a tank of 15% cool power to see if it handles that fuel any better? Sounds like a shim would drop the compression and perhaps drop the high temps your seeing. with the 20%.

I need to come up with some ideas quick since I'm getting very close to finshing my Sceadu 50 and need to find a fuel/plug/compression combo that works.

On a messy note, I crashed my Hirobo Shuttle Plus today after getting it in perfect tune on 20% nitro with an OS .37 Oh those dumb thumbs! Bent a hardened main shaft, shattered the right frame and skid, toasted my MS Comp main and tail blades. The impact popped the throttle linkage off so the funky chicken was avoided when the engine quit. If I'd have had just 3 more inches I might have recovered above ground level.

HeliProz on speed dial!