The Official Warp Mod Thread.

[Bob O]

Originally Posted by Bob O

One other thing to consider is the location of the control ball mounts on the B400 grips. If it's not offset by the same amount as on the stock grips, then the pitch will change as well. If there is less offset, there will be more right rudder pitch at center slider. The opposite will be true if there is more offset.

I have to correct myself here. If there is less offset, there will be less right rudder pitch at center slider.

[Chris Nifty]

Originally Posted by Luigi_tuga

It seems a interesting mod.
I flew the blade aluminum (no thrust bearings) for like 7 months in my 450 sport, then changed to tarot with thrust.
It may shave a few grams from the tail, but will also shave some high speed ability in the wind.
On my 450 sport with upgraded tail ratio (4.8) i can run out of pitch easily doing high speed funnels (on windy days).
Maybe all it will need then is 63 or 65 tail blades.

That kind of flying is beyond my abilities.

[Chris Nifty]

Originally Posted by Bob O

Here is the offset I was referring to. With the stock tail in the center slider position, the control balls are centered also but you have pitch in the blades for right rudder.

The red line indicates a zero degrees position. If I was to zero out the blades, the slider would no longer be centered and you would be able to see how far offset the balls are. From a few pics I could find on the web, the Blade brand grips have no offset to the balls, they appear to be perfectly inline with the blades. Can anyone verify this?

If there is no built-in offset to the Blade brand grips, then you would lose the built-in pitch that the stock grips provide. Referring to the manual, the tail limits are set to within 0.5mm clearance for right rudder. Zeroing out the blade pitch would equal that many fewer degrees of right rudder pitch.

You're right Bob, I didn't realise the stock grips have that pitch offset. The Blade ones don't. I just set the extreme right stick endpoint to very close to the tail shaft bearing, and then try to give the same amount of pitch for the left endpoint. Piro speed in each direction is quite reasonable, good enough for me anyway.
The shims go between the outer radial bearing, and the thrust bearing.

[ScotY]

There's offset in the grips? Hmmm, never even noticed but I sure have never seen that before in any helicopter I've built. You could move the tail hub outwards on the shaft if there's enough material left at the end.

[Bob O]

My 6HV had the balls offset as well.

[Stevemech]

How about using the blade slider and pivot arm also?

[Chris Nifty]

Originally Posted by ScotY

There's offset in the grips? Hmmm, never even noticed but I sure have never seen that before in any helicopter I've built. You could move the tail hub outwards on the shaft if there's enough material left at the end.

There's plenty of throw outwards, it's back in towards the tail case where it arguably runs out of throw. Prolly still got the same or more throw than my Mini P's.

[ScotY]

Originally Posted by Chris Nifty

There's plenty of throw outwards, it's back in towards the tail case where it arguably runs out of throw. Prolly still got the same or more throw than my Mini P's.

So if you move the tail hub outward, it would be able to slide inwards more? Would hate to go that route though.

[Chris Nifty]

Originally Posted by Stevemech

How about using the blade slider and pivot arm also?

I have no problem with the stock items, but looks like it's do-able if you custom make a mount for the pitch lever.

[Chris Nifty]

Originally Posted by ScotY

So if you move the tail hub outward, it would be able to slide inwards more? Would hate to go that route though.

Don't quite know what you mean there. I have the rotor hub mounted right out on the end using the original grub screw hole.
I just measured the pitch difference between hard left & right stick. Right stick or slider in to the tail case bearing - 36.6 degrees, and left stick or slider out to the rotor hub - 43.4 degrees. To get zero degrees on the blades with the slider in the middle of available shaft, you either need to have offset grips like the stock Warp ones, or shorter ball links, (I think).

[Luvmyhelis]

Originally Posted by Chris Nifty

I have no problem with the stock items, but looks like it's do-able if you custom make a mount for the pitch lever.

Your bell crank? Or the Eflite 450 one?

[Chris Nifty]

Originally Posted by Luvmyhelis

Your bell crank? Or the Eflite 450 one?

I'm using the Warp one, and am content enough with it.

[Luvmyhelis]

Originally Posted by Chris Nifty

I'm using the Warp one, and am content enough with it.

Not disagreeing there. Just making sure I understood where the conversation was going. As there was a reference of using the Eflite slider assy here.

Dang pretty mod I have to say. And my tail has more than enough authority running the 61mm kbdd's on it. So loosing some slight disc area back there probably won't hurt much from what I can see at my skill level. At 3200hs the tail spins at just under half that. Earlier the 450 guys panicked when I spun mine up to this.

[ScotY]

Originally Posted by Chris Nifty

Don't quite know what you mean there. I have the rotor hub mounted right out on the end using the original grub screw hole.
I just measured the pitch difference between hard left & right stick. Right stick or slider in to the tail case bearing - 36.6 degrees, and left stick or slider out to the rotor hub - 43.4 degrees. To get zero degrees on the blades with the slider in the middle of available shaft, you either need to have offset grips like the stock Warp ones, or shorter ball links, (I think).

If the tail shaft is long enough and you make a new flat spot so the tail hub can be fixed further out, you will get more pitch for right rudder using the Warp bellcrank.

[Chris Nifty]

Originally Posted by ScotY

If the tail shaft is long enough and you make a new flat spot so the tail hub can be fixed further out, you will get more pitch for right rudder using the Warp bellcrank.

I just had to stare at the tail of the bird for a minute to see what you're talking about and you're right, a slightly longer tail shaft would give more right rudder. I wouldn't bother doing that myself though - it's fine as it is.

[frito169]

so people have tried the blade 450 hub and grips? How's it so far? any less weight?

[Chris Nifty]

About 1.6 grams lighter and these have thrust bearings.

[frito169]

Is that with the aluminum grips?

[ScotY]

Originally Posted by Chris Nifty

I just had to stare at the tail of the bird for a minute to see what you're talking about and you're right, a slightly longer tail shaft would give more right rudder. I wouldn't bother doing that myself though - it's fine as it is.

Yeah, it's not the best way to fix a possible problem but it's just one way to go about it. Glad to hear it works okay as is.

I'm not too sure how I feel about the stock offset tail grip arms. We go to so much trouble to get everything square and 90 deg, bellcrank at 90, etc. it just doesn't seem the "right" way to go about it. From what I see, at least it's introducing non-linear throw in the correct/more helpful direction, i.e. to help counter main rotor torque. I suppose that's the intent but I wonder if that function is not built in to tail gyros nowadays.

[Luvmyhelis]

Originally Posted by Chris Nifty

If you guys want, I can post instructions on how these grips go together, courtesy of Thalios.

Yes! With pics if possible? I was leaning this way since your earlier post. And now with huge tail issues on my own I cannot overcome by precision assembly work plus the fact Jeff is out of the parts I need.

I am online now ordering!

Radial bearings are the 3x6x2.5?