140 CCPM Setup

[simusphere]

So I ordered the longer ball links for the 140 degree setup (not part of the kit) and I start putting the bird together and realize there are no linkages in the kit that are the proper size to set it up for 140. You can't cut the existing links down because then there would be no thread left on the rod. So is there any suitable substitute rod I can order to make this work properly. I can't find the rods on Amains site. They do have a linkage set but they are out of stock on the item and also, how do I know it even has the right length rods in there for the 140 setup? If that linkage set has the same rods that came with the kit then it's not going to work.

So if there is a turn key solution for setting this up right from the begining let's nail this down here so everyone can get the right parts ordered to begin with. Is there a way to make these rods yourself or another heli kit that has the right size rods that can be purchased? Since this is such a small item I hope amain starts including the rods as part of the kit in the future.

[BC]

I just got my kit in. Looks as good as everyone says.
Im not sure my tail pulley is true, a quick eyball of it indicated out of round. Will investigate further.
My setup will be;
8.7:1 main gear ratio
140º ccpm
upgraded metal swash
G401b gyro (futaba clone)
Hyperion ds20-gmd
(cyclic servos undeterimined)
AR7000 rx
OS Hyper
Century sp muffler
CY Radix 600's

[James Kovach]

BC,

I would be very carefly with that 401B gyro. I know it has held up well on mini electrics and such, but I have not seen anyone use one on a Nitro Heli as of yet. It may not hold up to the vibrations of a nitro heli.

[BC]

Thanks sparx, I have about 4 gallons through it installed on a hawk pro. I did have an issue at first but through some experimenting with mounting tape it worked fine.

[heartnspirit]

I just found out that A Main Hobbies will be getting in the "A" and "D" linkage rods listed in the Frenzy manual for converting to the 140 degree swash setup. Also, in the future the rods will be included in the package with the longer balls links.

[simusphere]

If that is true, that would solve the issue for good. I am still struggling to get some rods that are sized right. I may have to call Amain to have them send me the rods. Lord knows I need them after all the crap that I have gone through trying to get this to work.

You said "will be getting", so that means they don't have them yet. Right?

[heartnspirit]

Yes, they do not have them in stock at this time but the rods will be in on the next shipment of parts.

[simusphere]

I solved my immeadiate issue with the short links. I found the PV0040 Double Link, for Raptor 30 has the perfect length of threaded rod in the package. I just removed the raptor links and put the Frenzy links on. Price at my LHS was $2.99

Man am I glad my search is over. Now I can finish setting up the heli for this weekend if the rain holds off.

[grnmac1]

Originally Posted by simusphere

I solved my immeadiate issue with the short links. I found the PV0040 Double Link, for Raptor 30 has the perfect length of threaded rod in the package. I just removed the raptor links and put the Frenzy links on. Price at my LHS was $2.99

Man am I glad my search is over. Now I can finish setting up the heli for this weekend if the rain holds off.

The raptor rods are slightly smaller in diameter, so the ball links dont fit real tight on the rods. The solution that i was told was to grind off 2mm off each end of a set of 30mm rods (total of 4mm) Buy the rod pack for the frenzy to get extra rods.

[grnmac1]

I also dont recommend using the plastic swash plate if you intend on using the 140 setup. It may put to much leverage on the swash.

[simusphere]

I also dont recommend using the plastic swash plate if you intend on using the 140 setup. It may put to much leverage on the swash.

You're joking right? Have you seen evidence of failure using the plastic swash with 140? I'm almost done setting up my Frenzy with 140 on the plastic swash and it looks plenty strong enough to me. I'll let you know how it goes but I'm not scared one bit by that plastic swash on 140. I'm totally looking forward to it.

Also the Raptor rods are slightly smaller than the stock JS rods but the JS links are extremely tight and they actually fit much better on the Raptor rods in my opinion.

[grnmac1]

Dont take my post out of context, I merely made an observation on what i seen when i was setting mine up. Im sure it will be fine, however i myself will do the upgrade to a metal swash when i go 140. Also you were right about the rappy rods the JS links do fit just fine (i had some other morfidite rods from somthing, not sure what . )

[James Kovach]

I highly doubt there will be any issues with the plastic swash and 140 CCPM. You are not increasing the force required to move the swash by going to 140 CCPM. There is not more Force needed 120 vs 140 CCPM. IF the swash was weak, it would break in a 120 config just as well as it would in a 140 config.

[grnmac1]

It was merely a leverage issue i was concerned about with the ball link hanging out there so far. Of course its going to have the same force, but look at it like this. If you have a long bar and a short bar wouldnt you be able to apply more leverage with the long one? and if the long bar had a plastic tip. Wouldnt you think it may possibly break at the plastic tip? It seems to me a metal swash plate would be cheap insurance if you intend on going 140. Espesially if you intend on doing above average 3D. If a guy is just hovering or sporting around i would say nothing to worry about. I would say if your going to upgrade, dont buy half of the upgrade buy the whole thing

[James Kovach]

it is an unwarrented concern. fisrt off, the leverage point is not where the ball screws into the swash.

a metal swash is not needed at all. if durning 3d flight you were able to stall the cyclic servos, meaning you give cyclic an nothing happens, the yes you might want to think about it. I have not been able to do that. have not seen any indication that Ben has either durin his hard flights. so there in no needed for "added insurance". there is no reason to "spook" people into spending money for someyhing that is not needed.

[grnmac1]

First off, I did not post this to "spook" people. It was my concern i had with the swash and the 140 setup. And second the "cheap insurance" thing is something i personally do when i have 800 or so dollars in the air. If its works, thats fine no problem. and If we cant post our concerns out here, then why are we even here. If i see a potential problem on somthing i am going to say somthing. Also one other thing, i noticed that the photos you have with flybarless setup does not have the 140 setup. Have you installed it since? and have you tried it?

[simusphere]

Yes, but you made a recommendation suggesting possible swash failure using ccpm. At least that's how I read it. And that is a little different then giving your own opinion and reasoning as to why you may think it is necessary to upgrade the swash. There are lots of folks who have upgraded heli parts on different heli's that do so just because they want the upgrade and that's fine by me. But if I am going to make a recommendation to upgrade based on the belief that a part will fail prematurely or for whatever reason then it's because I have seen it fail before to someone else or it actually happened to me. There is no need to get into a pissing contest here, the point is there is nothing inherently wrong with using the plastic swash and 140 ccpm setup. You have already cleared that up for us by letting us know its just your own concern so no one else has to necessarily worry about it.

[grnmac1]

Thank you....

[simusphere]

This is an update to something that happened to me on my second flight with the new Frenzy. It appeared to have some sort of radio hit in the ailerons (roll) and it happened twice. Over on the other forum I discovered that some people discovered that the canopy would hang up on the ball links on the swash. This is the most likely cause for what caused my bird to bind up in the aileron department. I was lucky it didn't cause a crash but some one did crash from this problem according to the other forum.

This seems to affect 140 and 120 setups since the notches that are already in the canopy don't line up with the swash links in either configuration. So I just grinded away some matieral in the right places and havn't had any issues since. Just a heads up.

[simusphere]

Here is an update to the parts for going to 140 degree ccpm. Amain now has a 140 rod link set available for purchase. So the two parts you need to order along with the kit are as follows:

1. JSS-1634 (140 Ball Links)
2. JSS-1689 (140 Rods )

Then don't have the canopy mount change available yet but are working on it. Time to buy another Frenzy while they are still in stock.