Dog attack!

[Mr.Andersen]

A few years ago me and my friend was flying at a local hill where people use to let their dogs loose.
The whole aeria is under leash band but dog owners let their dogs loose anyway.
My friend of me was flying his Trex600 coming down the slope inverted against a ledge where on the lower side a dog was running upwards.
As the dog was behind the ledge we could not see it but when he saw it he imediatly climed realy close to the dag.
That dog suddenly in a moment got respect for the heli as it quicly turned around.
It was only a few meters between the inverted heli and the dog when he climed and it looked like it had no plans of attacking the heli.
I have seen the same with a dog trying to run into a snowblower cuting a corner and when it see what its about to run into it quicly turns around.
But stil its no good idea to scare the dog on purpose.

[Chep]

<< ^^^ Dang, Mr.Andersen, we have similar avatars

[mike_drz]

Unleashed dogs are one of my "pet peeves" when I was riding my motorcycle they always came outa nowhere off people's property. Sometimes I'd toy with them and wheelie off. But it's really dangerous if you don't notice them or if it's too late. It's a bad situation for the rider and the dog.

Not being leashed on the owners property I can at least somewhat understand, but in public, they should be leashed. Even on the owners property, if they can't control their dog it's their fault.

[Mooncatt]

Originally Posted by McKrackin

Just remember that children also like to run after stuff like that.
The heli was the danger. The dog didn't create it. It was thrust upon him.

The dog was presumably lead behind the church by the owner, then chased the heli of its own free will, and you say the dog had danger "thrust upon him?" By your logic, it was the dog's owner that thrust it into danger, if anyone.

Originally Posted by JasonJ

There is a phrase " but for". Basically in court it is used to determine fault. The dog wouldn't have gone nuts BUT FOR the irresponsible actions of the heli flyer. Doesn't matter if the dog was on a leash or not. The dog could be on a leash but go nuts and pull the leash from the owners hand. If that happens the dog owner is not at fault because he/she was taking REASONABLE precaution by leasing the dog. The dog wouldn't have gone nuts IF BUT FOR the actions of the heli flier flying where a REASONABLE PERSON wouldn't expect that activity to be happening.

That argument can go both ways. The church is private property (which I'm under the presumption he had permission to fly there, otherwise I'll concede the debate), and he was behind it away from the street. It's reasonable to expect that random people with dogs wouldn't show up there. So this wouldn't have happened BUT FOR the owner leading the dog there unrestrained, or untrained

Had it been on a leash and pulled free, then the owner shouldn't own a dog they can't hold on to or have trained not to act out in such a manner. Do that wouldn't even be a good argument in my opinion. I get your point, but if a pilot it's on private property with permission, away from the general public, and minding his own business, then the subject that comes into the situation and causes problems (the dog and owner) is the one at fault.

[JasonJ]

Churches are public ACCESS. I have seen a lot of churches in my life and have never seen a Private Property sign. It really doesn't matter if the flier had permission from the church. The property is still public ACCESS. Because of that and the nature of the property (a Church), it is REASONABLE for a person to enter a public ACCESS area and expect to not be hit by someone's radio controlled aircraft. RC flight is not a common use of church property so why would an average person need to be vigilant of that sort of thing? We as RC fliers have a responsibility to conduct ourselves in the assumption that no one knows anything about this hobby and to exercise care when engaging in our hobby. This is why I fly on my own property and at sanctioned purpose built flying fields only.

[McKrackin]

He saw her walk out of the building and cross the lot.
The dog wasn't lead behind the church. It sounds like a common area.

I see no real difference in flying a large heli in a public area and firing a gun in the same area.
As a matter of fact,the heli is probably even more dangerous.
How many people have accidents with their guns? Too many but not a large number.
How many people have accidents with their RC helis? All of them without exception.
And a large heli will arguably do more damage than an average firearm.

Flying large helis is dangerous and it's crazy to argue otherwise.

Self entitlement will always trump common sense though.

To the OP...I am NOT talking specifically about your situation. I'm just against flying in public areas in general.

[H2SO4]

I'm actually amazed that anyone would fly a large heli in a parking lot. There are cars, people, dogs, children... And somehow it's OK to add a big CP heli to that mix?!?

Personally, even micros in public spaces make me feel nervous. I wouldn't want someone flying their mcpx anywhere near my kids, so why do it to other people.

For sod's sake find a club, or at least drive out somewhere into the boonies where you can be reasonably sure that you won't have others around you. Flying a large CP heli in suburbia is just askin' for it.

[Ron_R]

Originally Posted by matt blaisdell

AMA will not cover us in a non ama field if a accident would happen. Please correct me if im wrong.

You are wrong. Please read the AMA bylaws in the section of what they cover.

[McKrackin]

Originally Posted by Ron_R

You are wrong. Please read the AMA bylaws in the section of what they cover.

They will cover you due to your negligence. Not your right to fly there.

[Ron_R]

Originally Posted by McKrackin

They will cover you due to your negligence. Not your right to fly there.

No, sir. READ the bylaws.

[Blayd]

Originally Posted by McKrackin

Alrighty then....

When in an open to the public area and a question arises as to who has the most righ to be there....It's never the heli. Never.

Yep. Thats a no win situation for you. Trust me, I almost got into a physical altercation a few years back with a guy who thought it was funny as hell to have me almost screaming for him to " get his F***in dog on a damn leash, as it tried get at my 700 as I was landing. I had a permit to be there, he was ignoring a leash law. We went nose to nose after I got it landed telling him theres a leash law, and it would suck to be in court, suing him for the cost of my 700 after it got trashed killing his dog. It ended when I told him, " It would be a shame to get your dog killed because your a feakin'n moron." Guess who got a notice from the county about keeping a " professional" demeanor when using the flight field.
Yes, I have a permit to be there, Yes its a designated flight field, Yes, its a public park, Yes you will ALWAYS be to blame in a bad situation. Trust me, if I had a private piece of land to fly at, that is THE best place for us. ANY time you fly in a public place, you risk having to deal with the public in situations that can be unpleasant. Not to mention this kind of incident, will at times, give the person who gave you permission to be there, a chance to rethink their decision, and weight the consequences of liability.

[Blayd]

Originally Posted by Ron_R

You are wrong. Please read the AMA bylaws in the section of what they cover.

+1...You dont have to be at an AMA sanctioned field to be covered. But, you must be obeying the "Rules of Safety" and if where your flying, violates these rules, you may not be.

[matt blaisdell]

Thats why i said correct me if im wrong, I was not sure

[Ron_R]

Originally Posted by Blayd

Yep. Thats a no win situation for you. Trust me, I almost got into a physical altercation a few years back with a guy who thought it was funny as hell to have me almost screaming for him to " get his F***in dog on a damn leash, as it tried get at my 700 as I was landing. I had a permit to be there, he was ignoring a leash law. We went nose to nose after I got it landed telling him theres a leash law, and it would suck to be in court, suing him for the cost of my 700 after it got trashed killing his dog. It ended when I told him, " It would be a shame to get your dog killed because your a feakin'n moron." Guess who got a notice from the county about keeping a " professional" demeanor when using the flight field.

Yep, so the dog owner complained about you. Did you complain about the dog's lack of a leash to the local Police? You should have, and he would have gotten a ticket. Did you get the dog owner's name and address? Good thing that dog didn't bite you.

Yes, you had "the right to be there", but the dog owner was breaking the law. THAT'S the problem I have with your story.

Let's take another scenario. You are on someone's property riding a motorcross bike. Dog is off leash and runs towards you and you run it over with the bike and kill it. Should we now say it's the motorcyclist's fault? I'm SURE that in that situation, the dog owner would get crap from the local authorities for not having his or her dog on a leash and the motorcyclist would be found not at fault.

Just as an aside, even at our private field, where we lease land to fly, we have people cross it sometimes even though it is clearly marked that we are flying Heli and you'd have to be blind not to see those flying about. If a dog should get loose of their leash and run at us, on our field, what then?

[Ron_R]

Originally Posted by matt blaisdell

Thats why i said correct me if im wrong, I was not sure

Which is why I posted my comment.

[Mooncatt]

Originally Posted by JasonJ

Churches are public ACCESS. I have seen a lot of churches in my life and have never seen a Private Property sign.

I don't have a "no trespassing" sign in my yard, but that doesn't make it public access.

I'm not religious, and the few times I've been to a church were for related events (weddings, funerals, etc) where it was a church sponsored function. I've never considered them public access, but I'll digress on that point.

[oliver1071]

Originally Posted by JasonJ

Churches are public ACCESS. I have seen a lot of churches in my life and have never seen a Private Property sign. It really doesn't matter if the flier had permission from the church. The property is still public ACCESS. Because of that and the nature of the property (a Church), it is REASONABLE for a person to enter a public ACCESS area and expect to not be hit by someone's radio controlled aircraft. RC flight is not a common use of church property so why would an average person need to be vigilant of that sort of thing? We as RC fliers have a responsibility to conduct ourselves in the assumption that no one knows anything about this hobby and to exercise care when engaging in our hobby. This is why I fly on my own property and at sanctioned purpose built flying fields only.

This stuff is funny so by that logic if it happened to be the day they were mowing the church lawn and this loud fast riding mower chopped an unleashed dog to bits it would be the guys fault riding the mower?

[Blayd]

Your right, the guy was breaking the law, but no the police did NOT ticket him, ( yes the cops came, we were almost to blows at one point ) They did check my permit. The county made sure to inform me, that pedestrians wil always have right of way, even on a flight field. They really dont care if the dogs on a leash or not.
Point is, public places, YOU will more times then not, bear the burden of being intrusive. Sucks, but thats the way it is.

[trickybit]

Originally Posted by oliver1071

This stuff is funny so by that logic if it happened to be the day they were mowing the church lawn and this loud fast riding mower chopped an unleashed dog to bits it would be the guys fault riding the mower?

You're really not following along, are you?

[McKrackin]

Originally Posted by oliver1071

This stuff is funny so by that logic if it happened to be the day they were mowing the church lawn and this loud fast riding mower chopped an unleashed dog to bits it would be the guys fault riding the mower?

It's reasonable to assume grass gets mowed.
It's not reasonable to expect a helicopter in a church parking lot. One I'd bet is shared by the apartment building where the lease would give the woman a right to be there.

And nearly 100% of churches are public access. Not for hobby related things but for simply being there. They're rarely closed to the public.